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Posted by: Donkey | 2006/04/05

Re post # 257

Good day to all.

With reference to my earlier post # 257. All was going well. By that I mean that things were pretty much normal office environment for me and my boss. To bring other users up to speed. My (straight) boss and I slept together a few weeks ago, and it was a bit akward since we were both intoxicated. He is engaged to be married and has a son.

I've been really confused ever since, needless to say. Expert and others gave me advice (for which I'm thankful & tried to follow). I tried my best to keep the relationship on a professional level. I was so sure that history wouldn't repeat itself. I was wrong.

We ended up in bed together again. It happened on Monday night. I had to work late because of a deadline. He stayed behind once everyone else had left. I was quite nervous, because we weren't "alone" again ever since the first incident. I got up to get coffee. The next moment he was standing next to me. I ignored him and went outside to smoke. Unfortunately, I've started smoking again since the incident.

He followed me outside. He smokes as well and asked for a light. He asked me how I knew that I was gay, and when I first realised it. Asked me about me coming out to my family and how they accepted it. To get to the point, we stood outside talking for close to an hour. I felt so sorry for him. It looked like he was struggling with something inside, as if there was something he wanted to tell me.

He told me that he knew he was making a mistake, but he felt obliged to marry the mother of his child. Also, his parents would disown him if they found out. He actually started crying! I did what I thought was the right thing to do at the time. I just hugged him and told him everything was going to be okay. We stood there for what seemed like forever, just holding each other.

We went back inside after a while, and I told him to come over to my place, because I felt sorry for him and didn't want to let him go out in the state he was in. I had no intentions of seducing him or doing anything else but be there for him as a friend. We ended up in bed again, although, this time was more passionate. We spent the whole night together.

Tuesday morning went back to work, and him ignoring me as if nothing happened. When I asked him if he was okay, he told me to mind my own business. He told me to get on with my work, since I missed my deadline. I thought I was being a good guy. Tried to comfort someone who looked as though he was suffering.

Now it's me who's feeling like an idiot, and a slut!!

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Our expert says:
Expert ImageGay, lesbian and bisexual expert

Hi Donkey, good to hear from you again.

Following the previous sexual interaction between you guys your boss has trampled over even more boundaries, including his inappropriately confiding very personal information and setting you up to console him. You express this yourself when you say you wanted to be there for him as a "friend". You're not his friend. But by the same token you're not simply an employee either. He obviously doesn't know how to define your relationship either and after over-exposing himself to you (both literally and figuratively) he's trying to assert his role of 'boss'. Probably because he feels totally vulnerable.

You were being a good guy. The person responsible for managing the boundaries in this scenario was him, not you. He messed up. He chose to divulge deeply personal information to you, he chose to go home with you, he chose to have sex with you and he chose to stay the night. You're no idiot and you most certainly aren't a slut. Wipe that thought away.

I think you need to see where this goes but some time soon you guys will need to talk. Away from the office but in a public space. And you need to somehow clarify your relationship, in the light of what has transpired. At the moment it feels like a bowl of spaghetti. If you're going to attempt to restructure the boss/employee relationship you'll need to somehow agree to what that means for each of you and what you'll do with what happened. Shake hands on it and then make very sure that the parameters of the relationship are respected. I don't see you guys being 'friends' after what has happened and it would seriously complicate your life if you became lovers.

Acknowledge that he may need to speak to someone about what is going on in his life but that this person can't be you.

As I suggested previously, if you feel that your job is being compromised in any way, or if he takes advantage of you in any way, you may want to speak to a labour lawyer.

Please post again and tell us how this unfolds....

The information provided does not constitute a diagnosis of your condition. You should consult a medical practitioner or other appropriate health care professional for a physical exmanication, diagnosis and formal advice. Health24 and the expert accept no responsibility or liability for any damage or personal harm you may suffer resulting from making use of this content.

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Our users say:
Posted by: Nikki | 2006/04/07

OK, I have replied to that address again, will monitor it

Reply to Nikki
Posted by: Brad | 2006/04/07

Donkey, how you feeling today?

Reply to Brad
Posted by: Donkey | 2006/04/07

Morning Nikki,

Please try to reply again to my mail. It is correct, I've received msg's from other friends, and it's working. I can't stay for long today, maybe an hour or so, then I'm off to go visit my mom.

Rgds

Alan

Reply to Donkey
Posted by: Nikki | 2006/04/07

D, I replied to your email but it is COMING BACK UNDELIVERED!

Please check your email address

Thanks
Nikki

Reply to Nikki
Posted by: Nikki | 2006/04/07

Tanya, I think you need to go back and read all the posts regarding this issue. Then sit back in put yourself in D's position.

Would you continue working in that environment? It is not a matter of making someone else pay for an honest mistake of allowing yourself to let your feelings go and then AGREEING to a quick fling.

We have to take responsibility for our OWN actions, we KNOW how society look at us and how they deal with us. We dont have to run and hide and walk around saying sorry for who we are, BUT we have to learn, judge a situation and DEAL with it.

D, is in a no-win situation, dealing with a gay man in DENIAL can be LIFE threating, believe me. His action is not over reacting at all, it is the BETTER option for him as a person. Getting away from that sort of "lover" is the ONLY way. If he wasnt working in the same company then he would simply have broken all contact and avoid the person and that relationship, but it so happens that this man IS HIS BOSS!

Had there been force, discrimination, and blackmail from the boss, then YES, the laws would have been able to deal with it, but this is not the case.

WE have to be responsible in being who we are. PERIOD!

Reply to Nikki
Posted by: Tanya | 2006/04/06

I'm also thinking he reacted too soon. This is such a difficult one.....

Expert can you come back and comment again?

Reply to Tanya
Posted by: Donkey | 2006/04/06

Hi All,

Just wanted to say thanks again for all your help and advice. I'm currently at an internet cafe, so I'll be leaving now. I'll try to check in tomorrow again.

Regards

Alan

Reply to Donkey
Posted by: Donkey | 2006/04/06

Hi Brad,

Well, maybe it's because I was typing a rather long post, but it didn't contain any addresses. It doesn't matter now.
Thank you for your time to reply, Brad.

I'm a software developer. Only formal qualification is my programming. At 23 I haven't had alot of exposure, but I'm fairly knowledable.

Right now , besides feeling tired (haven't slept for two days) I feel quite ashamed and surprised by all the responses from you guys. I can't believe there are so many caring people out there.

Reply to Donkey
Posted by: Brad | 2006/04/06

Donkey they won't block any posts here unless they include an email or web address, so be more specific - what do u do in IT? What are your qualifications? How much experience have u had?

And also, how are you feeling? Besides feeling tired.

Reply to Brad
Posted by: Nikki | 2006/04/06

HI D<br><br>Very glad to hear from you and being in a INTERNET CAFE you dont have lots of time so note down my email and make contact so that i can help you <br><br>(Email address deleted) >Hearing from you .........<br><br>xxxxx<br>Nikki

Reply to Nikki
Posted by: Donkey | 2006/04/06

Hi all!

After going home today, I couldn't bring myself to get some much (much needed) sleep. Now I'm sitting in an internet cafe busy job hunting.

Thank you so much for wanting to help, Nikki. I really appreciate it. I tried to post earlier but was blocked by the forum moderators for apparently advertising, so I'm not going to say what my line of work is. It's in IT, that's all I can say.

But I will find something sooner or later. Finding a new job is the last thing on my mind. I can't stop thinking that I could have prevented this from happening.

My resignation probably looks like my boss won. But I wouldn't dream of taking him on in a legal battle. I was appointed on contract, but he has paid all outstanding money to me, with no hassle. I think he was just glad to get rid of me.

So I won't actually have a leg to stand on, since I was on contract and he doesn't owe me any money

Reply to Donkey
Posted by: Nikki | 2006/04/06

Luke, lets not live in a dream world OK.

In the first place D agreed with what happened between them. In the second place D states he as FALLEN for the boss.

What in the world is labour law and CCMA going to do? If the boss cannot and WILL not accept his "gayness", have his fun when it suits him and then treats his "mate" with disgust the next day AND is his BOSS, just where will D end up if he presists with this situation.

If he goes to the CCMA or who ever to defend his job and he "OUTS" his boss who do you think is going to get the short end of the stick??

Lets be REALISTIC folks. D is far to great and passionate a person to desevere the redicule that will come his way. BEST LEARN A GOOD LESSON and MOVE ON, never to be in such a situation again.

If anyone makes contact with D, let me know I will help him find a job and get on with his life. Question in will any of you guys be arround when he OUT his boss???

Reply to Nikki
Posted by: Anon | 2006/04/06

Id like to know what Deeve, Dyl and Emcc think of this situation. Guys??

Reply to Anon
Posted by: Tiara | 2006/04/06

This all happened way too fast and it feels as if Donkey lost out somehow.... what about his leave pay? his bonus? And besides all that I also tend to agree with Brad and Luke, the boss should have resigned because HE screwed up - since when must an employee make a sacrifice because the boss is screwed up? He should have been less hasty and maybe even spoken to a labour lawyer about this. Now it feels as if the boss has got off scott free and Donkey has had to pay the price. It just feels so unfair and very frustrating.

Reply to Tiara
Posted by: Luke | 2006/04/06

Nikki, with all due respect I disagree with you, the BOSS should have resigned, NOT Donkey!

Reply to Luke
Posted by: Brad | 2006/04/06

Guys this is just plain CRAZY! He shouldn't be resigning! He's the victim of an abusive situation!

Reply to Brad
Posted by: Nikki | 2006/04/06

Hi Alan

You will probably not see this message but you have done the right thing and the last thing you need is to give in to a guy who is NOT going to change. YOur love needs love and not sex toy abuse by someone who cant face himself.

What kind of work are you in? Perhaps I could help you find something better and soon?

I hope you get an opportunity to come back here so that I can assist you.

Reply to Nikki
Posted by: Donkey | 2006/04/06

Hi Thoughtful,

Thank you so much for the reply and kind wishes. Things are quite crazy now. All my colleagues want to know why I'm leaving. Of course, I told no one, and no one except my boss knows that I'm gay. I just made up a story and said that I've found something else. It kills me to lie to them, but I just want to get out of there! And I don't want to cause any more trouble.

I went around to some of them and said good-bye, but he couldn't look me in the eye. And I could swear that I saw a few tears in his eyes. I feel sorry for him. And I'm feeling really guilty, even though I know I shouldn't.

I went down to the basement to put some of my stuff in my car, and I just started crying. I know crying is not a sign of weakness, but I just wish I could be as calm and nonchalant as him. I'm just dissapointed that I wasn't able to make it work, to find some way to be together. I'm obviously not what he's looking for, and I doubt that if I really have enough to offer.

Going to steer clear from guys for a while. I've only had one relationship of 2 years before this happened. My previous relationship was abusive and I ended it three years ago. I hope that someday I will meet the right guy, because I have a lot of love to give. Problem is only to find someone who will return it without trying to screw you over.

This forum has given me hope. Hope that there are people out there who are strangers, but still have the time and compassion in their hearts to listen to someone else's problems. God bless you all.

I guess this is good-bye for now.

Hugs
Alan

Reply to Donkey
Posted by: Thoughtful | 2006/04/06

Hi Alan

What can I say - only that I'm proud that you stood up for what you feel is right. You have displayed untold measures of strength and character. It's so easy to give in to our desires and to take the easy way out - but the road not taken takes so much courage.

The unknown is a daunting thought - but I know that you will be guided by divine wisdom. What ever the future holds, and wherever it may lead you, know that I wish you well and will hold you in thought and prayer.

Right now, I'm listening to Luther Vandros is singing "The impossible dream" on Heart 104.9 FM and my thoughts goes out to you - I trust that the message in this song, will be an inspiration to always strive for that which is already out there for you to claim and to reach that unreachable star.

Go well and God bless - Thoughtful.

Reply to Thoughtful
Posted by: Donkey | 2006/04/06

Hi Guys. This will probably be my last chance to inform you of what's happened since I handed in my resignation this morning. My boss called me into a meeting in the boardroom. He asked me why I was doing this, and I told him the truth. I told him that I couldn't work for him anymore because of the recent developments.

He tried to convince me to stay. Actually, he begged me not to go. He pleaded with me to stay so that we could become better acqainted, since he has developed feelings for me. I told him that unless he was going to be open about it and break off his engagement, I wasn't interested. He told he can't do it.

I'm busy packing up my stuff as I'm writing to you. He has agreed to accept my resignation, with immediate effect. He's paid me for the entire month and told me it wasn't necessary to work in a notice. It was funny how his whole attitude towards me changed once he realised he wasn't going to change my mind. He even tried to soften me up by saying we could get together tonight!!

Well, all's well that ends well I suppose. It hasn't settled in yet, but I think that everything will turn out for the best. I am a bit dissapointed. I will be lying if I said that I wasn't hoping that he would want to be with me. But that's the way life is....it could've turned out much worse.

A big thank you to all who listened and provided advice. May God bless you. I will try to give you updates as soon as I find a new job.

Hugs
Alan

Reply to Donkey
Posted by: Luke | 2006/04/06

Donkey, did your bodd accept your resignation? I really hope he didn't!

Reply to Luke
Posted by: Nikki | 2006/04/06

Hi again D.

You are not running away but looking out for yourself. You cannot be in a work situation where the BOSS is a gay in denial, abused you mentally and physically TWICE!.

HIS mind games can ruin your life and this is a situation you need to get away from. Learn the lesson and MOVE ON! THis is your way to fight back. No good to see labour laywers, it will NOT solve your BOSS's problem and just make him more denial and more dangerous. His problems can NEVER become yours.

LUKE, this is a situation that has gotten out of control and will develop into far bigger problems and we all know who will be the loser in the end. D doesnt need this at all.

Yes, one cannot always run but this particular situation is not D's problem and will only go away if boss-man deals with HIS own problem which he clearly has no intention of doing.

D needs to learn from this and move on. D make sure there is NO next time. Good Luck

Reply to Nikki
Posted by: Luke | 2006/04/06

Hey buddy, DON'T RESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DON'T RESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're reacting too quickly...... DON'T RESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply to Luke
Posted by: Donkey | 2006/04/06

Hi Nikki. Thank you so much for your reply and kind words. Be sure that I'll give my mom a big hug - she's a wonderful mom, very tough. She's my hero. It's no joke to raise four kids alone. When I came out, she was so cool about it. Just told me that she knew it and asked when we were going shopping.

I've handed him my resignation about 20 minutes ago....you should've seen the look on his face.....went as white as a sheet! I'm trying really hard not to look to worried about it, even though I don't have another job yet. I've put some cash away, so I might be able to sustain myself for a few months. But still, it feels like I'm a total loser for walking away. If there's one good thing that I learnt from my prior abusive relationship, it's to fight back. But I don't think the same applies in this case.

Thank you so much again for your advice. I'll keep you posted

Reply to Donkey
Posted by: Luke | 2006/04/06

Hey buddy, DON'T RESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DON'T RESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're reacting too quickly...... DON'T RESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply to Luke
Posted by: Nikki | 2006/04/06

Hi D, I think you maybe on the right road now. It is wonderful to be able to talk to your MOM about this, please give her a huge HUG from me !!!!!!!!

As for resigning, make sure you have another job to go to first. ALso see this as not running away but taking firm action on what is clearly not going to be resolved unless your boss is "man" enough to face the facts. Like I said before, HE is in DENIAL and that can become very dangerous, believe me. Your step to resign will send a clear message to him but how he will react should not be of any concern to you. You need to make descissions that will be best for YOU and not to suit him or anyone else.

THere is nothing wrong with your character and all you are totally guilty of is BEING HONEST, open and someone others can and want to talk to and confine in. THat fact that they then abuse you physically or mental puts the problem on THEIR door step, not yours.

Your MOM has a point, even if it was meant as a joke, be careful that your honesty and kind heart is not for ever abused, the right partner and friends are out there, be selective and you will do just fine.

Reply to Nikki
Posted by: Donkey | 2006/04/06

Good Morning.

Firstly, a huge Thank you to the Gay, Lesbian and Bi-sexual expert. And to Thoughtful and Nikki as well for your advice. I've spoken to my mom as well and told her about happened. I feel really bad about telling her, because I feel ashamed. She raised me as a single mom with 3 jobs and put me and my siblings through high school and college. The only thing she said was that she trusted my judgement and knows that I'll make the right decision.

I thought about it the whole of last night, didn't sleep at all. I've started typing up a letter of resignation, because like the expert said, unless I can set some basic employee\boss rules, things won't improve.

My mom even tried to lift my spirit by cracking a joke and telling me that my taste in men leave much to think about. I was involved with a guy some 3 years ago who was very abusive - both physically and emotionally. It took some time to move on after that, and I was confident that I wouldn't associate myself with someone again that abused me in some way.

My boss had the biggest smile on his face this morning, and he's really friendly today. Which is weird, because he's been ignoring me since the incident. At this rate, I think I should resign and just stay away from guys - at least for a while. Just getting tired of being the one that always has to back out of a relationship. I'm afraid that it might say something bad about my character.

Thank you once again for listening and the good advice.

Reply to Donkey
Posted by: Thoughtful | 2006/04/05

I admire your honesty - it takes a very strong person to accept the reponsibilty of one's actions.

In saying this, the consequences of both your actions may be huge - and may blow up in your face. Your boss abused his authority and seniority - and took advantage of your sensitivity & vulnerability.

Emotional manipulation can be very calculating - and I guess that you played right into his hands. Nobody can tell you what to do, but if I could advise you - set very clear boundaries for yourself. If you can't trust him, learn to trust yourself and don't allow yourself to be put into a comprimising position.

If this comes out, I can only guess whose gonna be the "donkey" in the shiela. I agree with Nikki, self-respect goes along way, and you would be far more attractive when you make choices based on dignity and selfrespect.

I don't think that you should take responsibility for his confusion - nor should you take responsibility for emotional well-being. And I would not advise you to even try to recommend him to go for therapy. Be very clear about the way forward - if he asks for advice regarding therapy or support, refer him to the expert on this forum, or to any other website with relevent information. But keep the boundaries very clear.

You have great potential - and the right person will come along for you to have a mutually stimulating, purposeful and enhancing relationship - with the freedom to be yourselves.

Good luck - and all the best.

Reply to Thoughtful
Posted by: Donkey | 2006/04/05

Thank you for your reply, Nikki. I'm up in arms at the moment. I guess I've got nobody to blame but myself. My gut feeling is telling me to quit and find another job, but because of financial commitments, it's not possible now. I'm actually dumbstruck! I haven't been able to eat or sleep since yesterday.

I really thought that after the way in which he confided in me on Monday night, things would have changed. Guess not. It's my own damn fault!!! I shouldn't have allowed myself to get involved, especially after the last encounter. Things have become quite uncomfortable at work, he doesn't speak to me, can't even look me in the eye. I'm so stressed out - I've smoked two packets already today...

I've pretty much fallen for him. Even though I know that we can't be together in the way that I want us to be. I don't know what to do. My head is spinning. I struggle to understand - I've accepted myself from a very early age and never tried to force myself to be something I'm not. Can it be so hard for someone to just face the facts?

I'm usually a strong person, and I'm used to being a shoulder to cry on for others, but I could not stop crying last night. I can't decide if I'm upset because of how he's treating me now, or because I realise that there is no future for us together.

Everyone on this forum has been so helpful thus far. Maybe I just need a good smack on the head...

Reply to Donkey
Posted by: Nikki | 2006/04/05

Oh my, you are dealing with a guy who is in total denial and that is going to mean big trouble for the both of you sooner of later,

I have said this before, there is nothing more dangerous then a gay guy in denial. His repsonse on TUE morning rang clear bells. THis time round there was no alcohol involved and all I can say to you is that HE NEEDS HELP and COUNSELLING and fast!!.

What is it with people thinking the worst and getting dis-owned? Isnt loosing one's OWN SELF RESPECT enough?

HE NEEDS PROFFESSIONAL HELP before he destroys a mother and child and family and himself. ANd you, come to think of it. You need to be very careful and instead of inviting him to your home, get him to go visit a decent counselor. If it is neccessary find a good counselor for him.



Reply to Nikki

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