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Posted by: Stef | 2006/11/02

Ourageous

Hi all, my father is a Knight for the Knights of da Gama at the Catholic Church that our family attends… This is a Catholic Order for Catholic gentlemen. In their latest newsletter, this article was written by the editor… My mother sent it to me to read, and after reading it, I decided I would respond to the editor… My response follows after the article.<br><br> <br><br>Over the last few years we have seen the gradual erosion of social standards that were once seen as inviolable. For instance, dress code is now less circumspect, respect for one’s elders seems to be non-existent, foul language that once was heard only in the barrack-room or the tap-room of the pub, but never in mixed company, is now commonly bandied about and even heard on TV.<br><br>These changes have come about for a variety of reasons, for example after the 1939/45 war many social standards had relaxed to the point of disappearing altogether. We cannot say that the war was solely responsible, other factors contributed, being the normal course of progress.<br><br>But this state of affairs continued to affect our thinking and attitudes to such an extent that what was once regarded as unmentionable is now openly discussed.<br><br>“Sexual Perversion!” Oooooh, shrieks of horror! But now it is commonplace to read in magazines and newspapers about what is euphemistically called “Sexual Orientation” or “Persuasion”. Members of the same sex are now openly living together and flaunting their “persuasion”.<br><br>A few years ago a case was heard in court about a person who was barred from inheriting the estate of the deceased “partner” because there was no valid marriage. The court ruled that such a person had the same legal standing as a spouse irrespective of gender and therefore could share the estate. <br><br>This was a watershed decision and the judges could not have foreseen the result of the flood gate they had unwittingly opened. Events rapidly moved along and now it is accepted that no differentiation can be made between persons of different colour, creed or sex. Legislation was passed to outlaw such differentiation and this is now entrenched in our constitution.<br><br>Those judges could not have imagined that in the space of a few short years we would see “same sex” couples demanding to be allowed to adopt children, and get “married” as did Sir Elton John in no less an establishment that Westminster Abbey!! Some prelate “married” him and him. Can you imagine a Catholic minister performing such a travesty of decency?<br><br>We have travelled a long and somewhat stony way in the sixty years since the end of the war, and this is not the end. <br><br>There is now a movement afoot to change the wording of the Marriage Act to the effect that marriage can be between two “persons” instead of “man and woman”. Our supreme Chaplain, Fr. Peter Cullen has drawn our attention to a petition issued by the “Constitutional Marriage Amendment Campaign” calling for a change to the Constitution to confirm that marriage can only be between a man and a woman. If you have Internet access you can download information and petitions at (deleted) and send the petitions to Mrs. Brigitte Mabandla, Ministry of Justice and Constitutional Development, Private Bag X276, Pretoria 0001, or you can send a letter to her supporting the change to the Constitution. We should show our concern that marriage culture is now being downgraded simply to pander to the twisted desires of a very tiny proportion of adults.<br><br>God created male and female in all the species for the purpose of union and procreation. Certain of the bird species and some animals mate for life, but irrespective of that the animals, birds, reptiles and insects only mate with the opposite sex. As far as we know Man is the only animal to have homosexual tendencies.<br><br>In America the same problem has arisen and there the Knights of Colombus has joined the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops in calling for the Senate to approve a “Marriage Protection Amendment” which will provide that marriage shall “consist only of a legal union between one man and one woman”. KoC are providing millions of post cards to Catholics who wish to express their support for the Amendment by sending the post cards to their senators.<br><br>In Massachusetts the state government is threatening to revoke the licenses of Catholic Adoption Societies unless they agree to place babies with same-sex couples. This means that Catholics will not be able to help some of the poorest and most vulnerable children unless they accept the government’s view about adoption by same-sex couples.<br><br>It makes us wonder what will be the next attack on our principles of Christian living.<br><br>Brian Probert, Editor<br><br><br>****************************************************************************************************************<br><br>Dear Mr. Probert<br><br>RE: Editorial. Volume 47, Number 9. – September 2006 <br><br>My father belongs to a Knights of da Gama group, and receives this link monthly. My mother read the editorial and told me about it, so I read it and thought I would respond to you. I have written from an alias as I do not want my fathers name to be spread around your Catholic Order.<br><br>I am OUTRAGED to say the very least, about your comment regarding gay/homosexual people in our society. I am gay, and VERY PROUD of it. I was created by GOD, and God and only God made me gay, being gay is NOT learnt behaviour, you are born with it. <br><br>I am a practicing Catholic, and have attended Church and Catechism all my life. I was born into the Catholic faith by my devout parents. I am very involved in the Church - I am a Minister of the Word/Lector on a Sunday night, I am a Grade 5 & 6 Catechism teacher, and I am a Youth Leader. As a 20 year old student, I have recently completed my 3rd year as a psychology student, and am currently starting my 4th year honours, which I may add, I am top of my class practically. I am a Lifeline Counsellor, and I facilitate on Personal Growth and Counselling Skills Courses for Youth and Children of all ages. I have also represented Interact and Rotaract both at School and University levels. <br><br>You might be wondering what I am getting at? Well my point is, is that I am just a good guy looking for happiness in my life, but after reading your editorial, I am far from it. What gives you the right to write about something that you CLEARLY know NOTHING about???!!! Why cant you and your “defend marriage” campaign just leave us homosexuals/gays/queers/fags alone?! We are not harming you in any way, we are just trying to live our lives, but this seems impossible when we have to put up with this kind of cr*p from people like you! <br><br>Everyone in my life has been so accepting of me. I am just the same person I was previously to them know that I am gay. I have not changed. Everyone at my Church knows I am gay and they have not kicked me out – after all, it would be their loss, not mine, because I am the one who is involved. <br><br>What about all those people out their, like probably yourself, who use protection when you have sex with your wife? As YOU said in your editorial, Man and Woman were intended to procreate, that’s supposedly your point as to why God invented Man and Woman. So tell me, how many children do you have, because everytime you have sex you should be procreating, it’s a sin not to? Should be hundreds by now… Ya, I bet not. Do you see my point? We don’t come along and take your matter to court, so don’t take ours. Don’t you want us to be happy? Tell me exactly, what affect is a gay or lesbian couple getting married going to have on you? Are you not going to be able to sleep at night, are you not going to be able to eat, are you not going to be able to drive? NO – You are still going to carry on with your life in the same way that you did before, the only difference is that you may see a same-sex couple walking hand in hand on the beach or at the shops - big deal, if you don’t want to see that then don’t go out or don’t look! Yes, you probably thinking, its fine to be gay, but you mustn’t act on it – are you being serious with this? That must be the biggest load of I don’t know what I have ever heard. You need to realise that these matters are NOT black and white, the Bible is just a guide, and needs to be updated to our present day society – people don’t live like that anymore!<br><br>Adoption – What is wrong with a same-sex couple adopting a baby that has no home? Are 2 men or 2 women not able/allowed to love a child? My boyfriend and I are so happy, and one day will get married, obviously not in a Catholic Church since you people wont accept us, but we will be married and hopefully have our own children, that we will love, in our own special way. My parents have accepted the fact that I am gay, they actually love it, they are so supportive and love my boyfriend. Being gay is not a big deal, its just people like you in society that make our life so difficult to live L <br><br>Basically, if I was to sum up how you feel on this issue, I would say that you don’t want people who aren’t straight to be happy!<br><br>And I thought that the Knights of da Gama were a Catholic Order for men who helped the poor etc… So why are you so concerned with us? Why don’t you just stick to what you meant to be doing and leave us alone. <br><br>My mother and I are both regulars on the Gay & Lesbian Triangle Project Forum on the Health 24 Website, so I will be posting your editorial as well as my response, so that everyone can read about what you think of us.<br><br>Steven<br><br>

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Our expert says:
Expert ImageGay, lesbian and bisexual expert

Hi Stef, welcome once again to the forum and thanks for this post - you and your mother sure make a formidable team. I admire you for taking this guy on - too many of us sit on the sidelines and moan but never take action.

I hope Brian Probert visits our forum and responds here - I'm sure many people would like to take him up on his irrational statements.

The information provided does not constitute a diagnosis of your condition. You should consult a medical practitioner or other appropriate health care professional for a physical exmanication, diagnosis and formal advice. Health24 and the expert accept no responsibility or liability for any damage or personal harm you may suffer resulting from making use of this content.

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Our users say:
Posted by: Confused | 2006/11/02

Good going Stef. You're a lot braver than I am to stick it to the man like that. Great rebuttal on an exeptionally weak argument we've all heard about a hundred times.

I wonder what Mr Probert will reply, IF he does reply!
;-)

Reply to Confused
Posted by: Dyl | 2006/11/02

Hey Stef, well done!

I agree with Glen, too many of us sit on the sideline. i include myself in that list. we all need to do more, the only way we are going to get our point accross to narrow minded, uninformed and those who make a life out of breaking the minority groups down is to stand up and be heard, wether they like it or not.
dyl

Reply to Dyl
Posted by: Brad | 2006/11/02

YIKES! Hi Steven and well done to you, and thanks for posting this here - who said prejudice was dead? Great response from you BTW.

Reply to Brad

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