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Question
Posted by: CP | 2005/12/13

On the Gynae site...do people like this exist?

Question
Subject: YES 4 ABORTIONS
Posted by: Kitana
Message:
Just very interested to know if there is other people around here that is for abortions? I read that most people go bullistic if someone posted that they went for a TOP (termination of pregnancy).

I went for a TOP about 3 years ago - and I can honestly tell you that I am glad I did it. My life would have been so *(^% up with that unplanned child.

But I am very excited to get married next year and have a child. (all which is PLANNED)

There are so many screwed up people out there who's life is messed up by falling pregnant young and out of marriage.

And yes I and only I ALONE will live with the knowledge I did infact killed my first child. I did make an mistake by not having protected sex so I do live with the consequences.

But lastly glad to say I have an FANTASTIC life, FANTASTIC fiance, FANTASTIC everything, which I am sure I would not have had if I would have kept the child.

Thats just my opinion on Abortions

EK OOR REAGEER SEKER MAAR SULKE MENSE MAAK MY DE HEL IN!

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Our expert says:
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I think Jillybean has it right. Denial is a great psychological ointment.

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Our users say:
Posted by: Tango | 2005/12/13

There is soooo much I can say about this. However, I walked out of a hospital 30 years ago with a beautiful baby girl in my arms and everyone shunned me because I should have had an abortion. I did not. She is an amazing talented highly educated young woman. Just another opinion.

Reply to Tango
Posted by: Latecomer to this post... | 2005/12/13

I had an abortion 15 years ago, do I regret it? Not once have I ever. I had an embryo removed and never have I felt like I made the wrong choice. I would definately recommend it to someone else in my position.

I would also never try to sway the minds or justify myself to the anti-abortionists. I respect their views, but at the same time guess that they have never been in that kind of a position.

Its the easiest thing in the world to condemn others when you yourself have not been there. Its life, mistakes do happen.

And the nonsense about if you are old enough to have sex, you are old enough to accept the consequences is exactly that. I accepted the consequences of my actions and made an informed choice that was right for me.

I believe the origional poster is happy with her decision, I for one dont have any emotional scars and to be honest the only time I think about it is when I see these little debates arise.

Reply to Latecomer to this post...
Posted by: Nat | 2005/12/13

My 2c.... Abortion under extenuating circumstances is ok. But there are very few extenuating circumstances.
One is rape.
Another ... where the pregnancy is going to affect the mothers' health adversely and the other side, when the mothers' health is going to severely impact on the baby's life. Is it fair to the child if the mother needs medication that's going to cause him/her to be blind/deaf/limbless/severely braindamaged if the pregnancy is continued?

Reply to Nat
Posted by: Jenny (aka Nadine) | 2005/12/13

I don't believe in 'you have a choice' and 'its your body', blah, blah. To have an abortion is wrong - no doubt about it.

Reply to Jenny (aka Nadine)
Posted by: Lois_Lane | 2005/12/13

well, to add my 5 cents worth........ as cold and calculated as this may sound, and at the risk of a "friendly" response. I do not agree with abortions..... if you are "mature" enough to open you legs, you are mature enough to take precautions. play with fire and you will get burned..... nice theory and all, but..... what about rape, then that's a whole new ball game? is it not? what is the christian take on that? did God allow a woman to go through that horrid experience so that a child can be brought in a world where its own "mother" will abhor it for the rest of her life due to the circumstances in which the child was conceived?

So this is where i contradict myself: i could never have an abortion, it is killing a life, but if i was raped and fell pregnant, you bet your bottom dollar that i would terminate, that life was placed in me against my will....... it is not my responsibility....... NOTE, i said against my will....

Reply to Lois_Lane
Posted by: ... | 2005/12/13

girlie..... i take it you also don't ever use contraceptives.........

Reply to ...
Posted by: A | 2005/12/13

And God also gives one thing people forget so quicly about
CHOISE, Free will.he gives many things,.and the choise to do with it what we want.At the end of the day, we dont need to answer to you ,thank God for that, only to Him what we did with all our choises.

Reply to A
Posted by: Genie | 2005/12/13

Everyone has a right to life,why did she not prevent falling pregnant in the first place?Why did she not abstain from sex before marraige?Whether it is a human being or a foetus or wteva u may call it,it has a right to be here.God gave u a child and who are we to take that life away?

Reply to Genie
Posted by: A NUN | 2005/12/13

What an intelligent comment 'Girlie'. Your 'insight' stuns and silences me.
lol

Reply to A NUN
Posted by: Tiekie | 2005/12/13

Nee wat dis net makliker om 'n aborsie te doen.

Reply to Tiekie
Posted by: Girlie | 2005/12/13

Hou jou koekie toe if you don't know how to have safe sex or don't want a unexpected child.

Reply to Girlie
Posted by: Um.... | 2005/12/13

Hot - the law

Reply to Um....
Posted by: HoT | 2005/12/13

Ruby you may indeed decide what to do with your body but who gives you the right to kill?

Reply to HoT
Posted by: figured it out | 2005/12/13

okay, define life!

A person can be brain dead, but still have a heart beat. A heart beat is just that, a muscle pumping fluid, nothing more nothing less.

Come on guys, decisions have to be made under extenuating circumstances, whether we like it or not.

That is just the way life is, and the only thing gets us through it is understanding, compassion and care. No lousy decision is ever easy, so support before you condemn.

Reply to figured it out
Posted by: Ruby | 2005/12/13

Thanks Delene, you are right.

My boyfriend and I are still together, and I often wonder what it would be like now if I we were a family, how different my life would have been etc etc.

If my younger sister came to me asking if she should do it, I would say no, the pain you live with afterwards is terrible.

Am I pro choice - yes, absolutly. Every woman has the right to decide what to do with her body.

Reply to Ruby
Posted by: Casey | 2005/12/13

Twink believe it or not but at the moment conception takes place the cells begin to divide, did you know a heart beat is detected 21 days after conception, now should a person take it upon themselves to terminate that heartbeat, it's murder. Thou shalt not kill applies to ALL and not to the selected WRONG doings man says we must be punished for. The executioner, the murderer, the torturer, whatever, they stopped a heartbeat and that is termed as taking another life.

God has NOT given US the permission to take a life, but man has. Sad world we live in, when we agree with man and let God's commandments fall by the way side.

Reply to Casey
Posted by: CP Mom | 2005/12/13

My opinion regarding abortion will never change, sorry if you don't like it.

It's killing an innocent defensless human being that GOD created.

Amen!

Reply to CP Mom
Posted by: Delene | 2005/12/13

Ruby, sorry bout your pain.

Unless you been there, no one knows how traumatic it is.

Reply to Delene
Posted by: figured it out | 2005/12/13

Twink, you are right, people should do some research and understand this.

Reply to figured it out
Posted by: Nicolai | 2005/12/13

It's so sad either way, in an ideal world no one would chose to terminate their pregnancy - but we are not living in Utopia.
Things have to be really bad to make that choice, the same way that when one choses to end their own life.... how bleak are things in THEIR mind to go ahead.
No woman wants to do it in her heart of hearts - it goes against every instinct that she has, but it is her alone that inevitably carries that burden with her for a long long time.

Reply to Nicolai
Posted by: Ruby | 2005/12/13

CP Mom , I found your comments deeply offensive.

I had an abortion when I was 19 years old,no job, my boyfriend and I were very rocky, I was terrified, didn't tell my family or friends. My bf took me, and it was extremly traumatic.

The worst part is they heard you through there like cattle, the 'counceling' before the time to make sure its what you want borders on propoganda.

Do I regret it - in a way yes, and in a way no. I was by no means ready to be a mother, but it is a sad part that i carry around in my heart.

Do I wonder if I am going to be punished by becoming barren? Yes I do, all the time. My body has been very messed up by it, and that was 3 years ago.

According to you I do not deserve to have children ever again! Your comments were very hurtfull CP Mom. Think before you speak in future please.

Reply to Ruby
Posted by: .... | 2005/12/13

just had a thought seeing as we're talking about life and death.......maybe we shouldn't use condoms... aren't you taking away the right to life then?

Reply to ....
Posted by: twink | 2005/12/13

sorry if that sounded a little detatched... and i'm sorry if that offends anyone.

Reply to twink
Posted by: twink | 2005/12/13

technically, it's not a child. when a pregnancy is terminated the foetus hasn't formed a brain yet, it doesn't even breathe. it doesn't have organs .. it isn't alive.

Reply to twink
Posted by: figured it out | 2005/12/13

Be objective, whatever the curcumstances the principle is the same - the taking of a life.

The question then needs to be simply this - is it justified or not?

Killing in self defence - yes
killing as punishment as in the USA - an ongoing debate
Killing to prevent a potentially disasterous situation and creating an unhappy life - debatable as well.

Hence the never ending saga of death penalty and abortion issues.

Reply to figured it out
Posted by: Delene | 2005/12/13

hardly HOT

I'm saying
If you make the statement that murder is murder, you should stick to it.
Sumone who is on the death roll's life will be taken by humans.....
I.e...its murder, in a different way.
a human being is deciding if he should live or not...and he must live with that decision......

I am for death roll, i believe in it.
I am just saying, you cant say
murder is murder, and its wrong, then shout for sumone else to be killed.
it is double standards

Reply to Delene
Posted by: CP Mom | 2005/12/13

Yes Delene I DO believe in the death penalty if that is what you are asking.

Reply to CP Mom
Posted by: Helena of Troy | 2005/12/13

Delene you are comparing an innocent unborn child with a murdering bastard ?

Reply to Helena of Troy
Posted by: Delene | 2005/12/13

CP Mom, so to kill sumone cuz he killed sumone is OK for you!!?

If murder is murder to you, then I think you have got double standards.
It cannot be Ok sumtimes and sumtimes not.




Reply to Delene
Posted by: CP Mom | 2005/12/13

Are you talking about that black guy FIO ?

Yeah shame hey he's going to die and Arnie didnt give him ....whatever they call it ?

WHAT ABOUT THE F O U R PEOPLE HE KILLED HELLOOO! Did they ever have a chance ? Hmmmm?

Jissie ek kan so kwaad raak oor hierdie mense wat so aangaan omdat die arme siele op death row sit maar niemand worry oor wie die mense dood gemaak het. Beste is hulle raak het aan die slaap is nie verkrag en geslaan en gesteek nie!

Reply to CP Mom
Posted by: figured it out | 2005/12/13

Murder is murder, death is death. When is death ever right? Is it ever right. Someone was killed in the USA today, that is murder if you wish.

And what about you when you defend yourslf and kill someone, that is murder too, is it not?

The fact is, in situations we decide to take or not to take a life, based on circumstances that appear to justify the taking of the life. Be that in self defense, the criminal justice system, or abortion.

Reply to figured it out
Posted by: twink | 2005/12/13

sorry guys, i want to comment, but i also dont want to offend anyone. it's such a difficult topic. i will say this ... i agree with Sasha, and ... and Delene. You dont know what she was going through at the time when she made her decision, and you don't know what circumstances she was under.

everyone has their own opinions, lets not fight and argue about them though.

Reply to twink
Posted by: CP Mom | 2005/12/13

I did apologize above for maybe going overboard BUT....murder remains murder in my eyes.

But lets leave it there.

Reply to CP Mom
Posted by: ... | 2005/12/13

Delene... i read it the same way you did........ CP Mom, understandably has a problem with abortions... and is very emotional about it........... CP Mom... you did the same thing awhile ago... posted one of these pro abortion from another forum onto here........ i think next time... just respond in the relevant forum..... i think you're great... but sometimes you just strike out based on that first thought you have........... you need to step back sometimes before you respond :) .......... anyhow.... i'm breathing much better now.............thanks! :)

Reply to ...
Posted by: Jillybean | 2005/12/13

Go and read the posting at Gynaedoc's forum. Honestly, then you tell us.

Reply to Jillybean
Posted by: Sasha | 2005/12/13

Dear Delene

I have never been for an abortion but there has been 31 posting about this one posting so far - and you are making the most sense. Thank you. Its so true. Pity the others dont see it that way.

Reply to Sasha
Posted by: CP | 2005/12/13

Because she's pretending to be soooooo HAPPY and she's got this FANTASTIC life....meanwhile she's in denial.

Reply to CP
Posted by: Doesnt make sense | 2005/12/13

Cybershrinks comment - why is she having denial problems? She told us all she did do the abortion?? It really does not make sence to me..........

Reply to Doesnt make sense
Posted by: Delene | 2005/12/13

As I see it, and I read it, you guys are really making it more than what it is.
She had an abortion......She called a spade a spade by saying the child would have ^%%&* her life?
Other words would be "complicate" what else is it then!!? It means the same

And maybe her life is really fantastic due to that? why play shrink to read more than what is into it?

Pretty much is me as well....
I had an abortion as it would have complicated things just too much
My life is great. it would have been very different with the child.
So yes, i amhappy bout my decision
Stone me i dont care. Is me who must live my life just like she must.

The difference is, I'm using different words.

Its a gyny site, so she opened a discussion that pretty much belongs there too.
Just because you dont like it, or like what she did, doesnt mean its all that wrong either.

Reply to Delene
Posted by: CP Mom | 2005/12/13

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10....breath....& sorry if I lost it but....ja ....but....

Reply to CP Mom
Posted by: Helena of Troy | 2005/12/13

Jillybean herself Im sure.

Reply to Helena of Troy
Posted by: figured it out | 2005/12/13

hahahaha,,, ok, not four but for. Makes more sense.

Its Tuesday, too soon for major stress levels

Reply to figured it out
Posted by: LOL | 2005/12/13

Lol ---> ...
Deep breaths everyone!

Reply to LOL
Posted by: CP Mom | 2005/12/13

Delene: possible yes, but then look for help like many has done here and received it not post like she has done.

You really think with a posting like that she was expecting people to be nice to her ?

But I guess it's everybody's own opinion.

Reply to CP Mom
Posted by: ... | 2005/12/13

its not really 4 abortions... she is saying she is FOR abortions... ie.. not anti.......... arghhhhhhh....... lol... my stress levels.... :)

Reply to ...
Posted by: Jillybean | 2005/12/13

My last comment - I promise!! Ok so she had to have an abortion a while ago - she was probably in a tough situation. But going on and on how everything is so "FANTASTIC" - who is she trying to convince?

Reply to Jillybean
Posted by: Delene | 2005/12/13

CP Mom, maybe give it to her then!?

Who knows what she is going through?
Maybe being ugly with her makes things really bad for her? maybe she is suffering with that decision she made...but doesnt know how to express herself at all

Reply to Delene
Posted by: figured it out | 2005/12/13

FOUR ABORTIONS!!!! Is that the initial story? Ok, in this instance then this person needs her head read! Once is is ok, twice pushing it a bit, but 4 times, whats going on with this person???

Reply to figured it out
Posted by: CP | 2005/12/13

Is she happy ?

There is a big difference between actually being happy and trying to convince yourself you are happy........

Reply to CP
Posted by: ... | 2005/12/13

CP mom.. you post her response to you... but you don't post what you said to HER!!... You said "i hate people like you"....... what kind of a response did you expect.......... arghhhhhhhhhhh........... people........................................

Reply to ...
Posted by: ... | 2005/12/13

why do people get so upset.... she is happy with her decision... she made a choice... and she is letting other people on that forum know that there are people who have abortions and then go on to be successful and happy........ unplanned children can cause havoc in a person's life... who knows what this woman's situation was at the time????

Reply to ...
Posted by: CP Mom | 2005/12/13

Fio always has a point!

Delene :-)) Dear girl we all have done things in our lives we are not proud of but you dont start a posting like that and NOT expect some sheeeeet?

She's looking for someone to tell her it was right.

Reply to CP Mom
Posted by: Delene | 2005/12/13

FIO, you do have a point.


Reply to Delene
Posted by: ... | 2005/12/13

I am pro choice.... but making the choice to abort doesn't mean that you won't ever experience pain from the decision... we all make decisions at times, that we might not really WANT to make....

Reply to ...
Posted by: Delene | 2005/12/13

No Cp mom, the only person other than today telling the world I had an abortion, is my husband.
Is certainly not sumthing one should be proud of at all.
But maybe i just dont need justification. I'm content with my decision. However difficult & sad it was, i still believe it was the best.

Reply to Delene
Posted by: figured it out | 2005/12/13

We all need justification when we are being slammed for our decisions that people dontunderstand. It hurts when people judge from the outside, so we need to do all we can to clear the air. And no matter how happy we may be, there will always be some guilt for the initial mistake of falling pregnant and having to terminate.

We all make mistakes, and all need peace of mind, and support, and understanding. No-one needs to be judged, we just need to be understood.

Reply to figured it out
Posted by: CP MOM | 2005/12/13

THIS WOMAN IS MAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOOK WHAT SHE SAYS TO ME:

Subject: RE: YES 4 ABORTIONS
Posted by: Kitana
Message:
To CP mom

You know what - you are a MISERABLE person, because you can't have a child of your own and worst of all you adopt a SPACTIC child.

So don't be jealous of my fantastic life - the life you will never have!!

You chose your own destiny just like me - SO LIVE WITH IT!!
Date: 13/12/2005

Reply to CP MOM
Posted by: CP Mom | 2005/12/13

Yes Delene I hear you but I dont see you telling the world how that child would have (^&&^%( up your life to use this persons words.

She )*&&^()) up her own life the child was innocent.

Let me just add I waited on the list for over 2 years to adopt Charne - there are many MANY people out there who would have gladly taken her and given her a happy,loving,warm home - no need to kill.

I dont judge you at all delene it's just the manner in which this person goes on about it that pissed me off.

As I think FIO said if she's so heppi why then still want justification for what she's done 3 years later ?

Reply to CP Mom
Posted by: Delene | 2005/12/13

Well, i had an abortion few years back.
Although I wont recommend it to sumone......If I had that child, my life, and my childrens life would have been horrible, so I am glad I did it.

Dont think anyone has a right to judge unless you are forced in a situation like that. Its a tough decision to make, and one a woman must live with.

Reply to Delene
Posted by: figured it out | 2005/12/13

Jilly Bean, it breaks my heart too, 18 years ago my girlfriend had an abortion without me even knowing she was pregnant. And 3 years ago a girlfriend of mine in London fell pregnant, and terminated. I had no say in th ematter, and was really upset. But in hindsight, it was probably the best thing to happen, whether I like it or not.

Once again, its not always about what we like, its about what is best. Yes, there are many people who are unable to conceive, buit how does that justify bringing a child into this world under the wrong circumstances?

Its like we know there are starving people around the world, how does me eating all my food on my plate here help them?

I am sad fo rpeople who are unable to have children, I have 3 friends in that situation, and its really tough for them. Fortunately we have surrogacy opportunities and adoption opportunities that can fulfill that gap. But being angry at people because of their ability to choose to have children or not, is not the solution to infertility.

Reply to figured it out
Posted by: CP Mom | 2005/12/13

Ja nee hulle kan my ook maar aanval.

Every birthday and xmas i wonder is her mom thinking of her ? The worst is that when she was about 3 the welfare phone me and said the same couple have a boy : DO YOU WANT 'IT'...i will never forget it

I was getting divorced and could not afford it...wish I could but how do you now he's not also been a failed abortion attempt?

This is were my bitterness towards God sometimes comes in he gives people LIKE THIS a baby ? But me who tried for 8 years at fertility centre's to conceive he does not ?

Ja but that's a subject for another day.

As you say it's 3 years down the line IF she's so damn happy with her FANTASTIC life what was the point of the posting ?

Obviously she's not,...

Reply to CP Mom
Posted by: figured it out | 2005/12/13

People can slate me as they wish, but I am pro- abortion, as a last resort, or under extenuating circumstances. I know of peoples lives who would have been ruined had they not done the termination, and not only their lives but he lives of the children.

From a biological perspective I believe that although life technically starts at conception, the embryo is nothing other than a mass of cells multiplying with no function until a particular age of a coupe of weeks. Thats why there is the 12 week milestone to achieve, since thats when the foetus is basically fully formed, and from there on all that happens is it grows and matures. And if a woman is going to miscarry, its usually before 12 weeks. Before 12 weeks, its not much other cells differentiating. Termination after 12 weeks is a tough thing, before I dont have a problem with.

Anyway, my feelings aside, there is a practical element to be considered, and its always hard to think and feel along the same lines, hence the eternal debate and dispute between the various groups pro and against abortion.

So, having said my say, end of argument fo rme, otherwise this will be another one of those slanging matches.

Is it fair to bring an unwanted child into this world?

Reply to figured it out
Posted by: No Bravery | 2005/12/13

My husband is infertile. We will most probably never have children (unless I find a sperm donor or adopt). Do these things bother me? Not in the least. We all make our choices...and I'm really happy for her that it worked out for her. However, I don't believe that having an abortion will not leave SOME kind of a scar. Let's hope for her sake that she is still this happy about her decision a couple of years down the line...you never know where life may take her.

It's an individual choice...and we all have to life with them, heh?

Reply to No Bravery
Posted by: Jillybean | 2005/12/13

Fair enough FIO, I understand what you are saying. BUT... abortion is like religion - there will always be mixed emotions about these topics and they can cause huge huge huge fights! A friend of mine can't have children - she would do anything and she has tried everything and has gone for every treatment. Imagine she has to read this - somebody going on about how fantastic their lives have been since they aborted an unborn baby.... breaks my heart!

Reply to Jillybean
Posted by: Frusty | 2005/12/13

CP MOM, I totally agree with your sentiments. I cannot justify the termination of a life. There are extremes, yes, I will not deny that, as in rape cases etc. But to willingly terminate a life because of your own stupidity to my mind is so wrong.

Let me tell you a story. As you all probably know, my husband and I separated for 6 months. We got back together again, on my side it was for the benefit of my son, but that is besides the fact, and 3 months after we got back together, I fell pregnant. My family doctor, who had known me for years, treated me for depression and been through so much with me with regards to my marriage and all the trauma, asked if I wanted to abort the baby!!! On relfection many years down the line, I can understand that he was just concerned for me and my mental health, but I was so horrified at what he had suggested that quite unlike me, I swore at him, stormed out of the surgery and changed doctors. Never in my wildest dreams would I ever do anything like that. NEVER! No matter what my circumstances were, I would never be able to justify taking away a life, especially one of my own.

Reply to Frusty
Posted by: figured it out | 2005/12/13

Its easy for people to be against abortion, until they find themselves in crap. Also easy when they dont have to eal with the consequences of a child brought into this world under wrong conditions etc.

Abortion is not a nice thing, for various reasons, and there will always be two sides of the coin. Just as people have affairs and are unfaithful, in an ideal world it would never happen, but reality dictates that things do happen, and we need to make the best decisions under the circumstances. Best decisions are not always nice, and not always right.

I think here you'll find a lot more balanced people who ralise that often we have to make decisions we dont want to.

Reply to figured it out
Posted by: Jillybean | 2005/12/13

One word: DENIAL! She is probalby looking for someone to back her up so that she can feel better. But I dont' know, somebody who just goes on and on and on how Fantastic everything is...... I don't think so!!
Dit maak my ook de hel in CP!

Reply to Jillybean

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