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Question
Posted by: jayna | 2004/10/04

just asking.....

dear cybershrink

do you think that deciding to commit suicide is always an irrational thought? is there ever a time that it could be the most rational way to end the pain and suffering some people might feel at that time?

why is it that people tell each other to hang in there when their lives are filled with pain all the time? who is it that says that its wrong to give up and discontinue your life?

I am not thinking about suicide now, just something i think about sometimes. I have felt like commiting suicide before but i decided not to do it because i didnt want to hurt my family. i dont feel this overwhelming thought of being greateful to be alive even tho i am not unhappy now.

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Our expert says:
Expert ImageCyberShrink

Hello Jayna,
Well, think about this. beyond any possible doubt deciding on suicide CAN be an irrational thought. the issue is more whether it is EVER rational and the best option available. I have, from my years of work in palliaive medicine and hospice work, seen so many people who were saying they didn't want to continue living, when it seemed to rational in the light of their pain and other serious symptoms. But it soon became clear that what they eant, very reasonably indeed, was that they didn't want to continue living LIKE THAT --- and it was the :like this" that needed to be changed and usually could be.
Similarly, many people with serious Depression are sincerely convinced that their situation is hopeless, when it actuall isn'; so, and who, when their depression has been well treated, recover and feel so much better they're glad they didn't respond to what at the time had seemed like such a rational impulse.
So you'd need to stipulate that someone would need to have had expert treatment from the best available sources, with second opinions, etc., before deciding that their physical and/or mental state was incapable of improving. it is a guaranteed irreversible act, as kernel says, in reponse to a usually reversible state.
The reason so many people do urge you to "hold on" etc., is because they have had experience, either personally or with loved ones, of how that negative and gloomy situation CAn change.
Maybe, from your comments, though you're "not unhappy now", you haven't yet found a real sense of purpose in life that makes you feel fulfilled and useful, apart from avoiding the pain which your loss would inevitably cause to those you loved. Maybe psychotherapy to explore such issues would be worth while ?
With your pregnancy, how to ou feel with regard to the baby / child, and your prospective life as a mother to it ?
And congratulations, suicidal, on taking sensible precautions, for sensible reasons. That's rational !

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Our users say:
Posted by: Kernel | 2004/10/05

Hi Jayna

Why don't you put it to the test? Next time you think you have an irrational thought, see how many independent people agree with it. If most agree with it - it is consensus and it is probably not an irrational thought - vice versa.

Best of luck.

Reply to Kernel
Posted by: suicidal | 2004/10/04

I've tried to commit suicide on three occassions. Once when I was a silly teenager -and the next time I tried twice in one week! Why I'm still here, I have no clue, because the reasons for wanting to commit it, is still there! And to top it off After all the trying, I actually have an unplanned little fella - which by the way I wanted to abort, but just could not after seeing that little heart beat on the sonar :-D!

I think it's a spur of the moment thing when you actually do it.

I just sat with a bunch of painkillers and swallowed - if my neighbour did not come in at that time wanting to borrow something, I would have been history.

Yeah I think about it on a daily basis, but then the thought of the kids and family and friend's and even thinking of people in far worse situations, makes me rethink.

A friend of mine hanged herself, and after seeing what her family went thru, I promissed myself I'll not let my family go thru it.
Because on all three occassions, I took pills - I now make sure there is no pills around in the house. My neighbour keeps painkillers and stuff in case we need it, then makes sure it is taken in her presence, in case I want to stash it.

Reply to suicidal
Posted by: jayna | 2004/10/04

i dont think the criteria for a rational thought is that there must be consensus tho.

Reply to jayna
Posted by: Kernel | 2004/10/04

It is irrational because it is an irreversible act based on a decision solely made by yourself - only consensus with others would make any decision rational.

Just my opinion.........

Reply to Kernel
Posted by: Paris | 2004/10/04

thank God for that.

I also had a friend of mine commite suicide. Its a hard thing to deal with. I guess we just have to understand why they decided on that route to lay it to rest.

I still cry for him 10 years later. He was my best friend but i understand why he did it.

There is nothing selfish about missing some one.

Reply to Paris
Posted by: jayna | 2004/10/04

paris. i have absolutely no intention of taking my life. its a question. i have tried a long time to have a baby. its the death of a friend who commited suicide that makes me wonder. she was intelligent and caring and i cant help but think that she is better off without all that pain and all the difficulties she was going through.

i wish she was still alive, but thats my own selfish desire to have her still writing to me. and i would have like her to feel happiness too but life was bad to her and she didnt deserve that pain.

it gets me thinking about suicide often. not me killing myself tho.

Reply to jayna
Posted by: Paris | 2004/10/04

The only time i would ever consider suicide is if the world came to a sudden end and there was no food or water or another male on the planet. Then by all means take your life, cause chances are you wont survive any way.

You on the other hand are pregnant, which means you have a responsibility to this child. You are the care giver and the provider. If you did this too your child, it would seriously be a pity.

I will not judge your circumstances, but i will say this. If you intend on taking your life, atleast wait until your child is of an age to understand it.

Again, be safe.

Paris
xxx

Reply to Paris
Posted by: Beyond Tired | 2004/10/04

This is a question we all struggle with. With my most recent experience, not really wanting to die but still doing what I did made me realise that life is a strange thing -- when I felt down again, not unhappy as you say, I must say I was thinking very rationally and reading what would happen, but still went ahead, thus irrational, also thought if had taken sleeping tablets as well, maybe I could have slept, but you know what, I wouldn't be here then. If this doesn't make sense, guess what my frame of mind is, extremely confused.
Life however tough it is, is life. I believe that some people although rational act irrationally in the end when tryinig to commit suicide and it is not the way to go. Very tough to fight the urge when it starts, life just feels empty and worthless, not even the sun shining, birds singing and so forth makes a difference, you don't think. (Sorry if my babbling doesn't make sense)

Reply to Beyond Tired
Posted by: jayna | 2004/10/04

thx paris

i will not commit suicide now. i am pregnant and not unhappy. i am happy but i dont go about saying i am so glad i am still alive and didnt kill myself.

its just that i wonder why we say people are irrational just because they make a decision to do something that others dont agree with.

Reply to jayna
Posted by: Paris | 2004/10/04

I dont think people are in the right frame of mind when committing suicide.

But since you ask this question, i dont think you are really wanting to do it. I think you realize that there is some thing out there, since you yourself have said that you are not unhappy at this stage. When times are really tough, i think we all think about it. But some how we pull ourselves out of the situations and carry on each day.

Suicide is an easy way out, but i dont think we will ever really know what goes through their mind to go to such extreme measures.

I pray that you never act on your thoughts.

Be safe.

Paris
xxx

Reply to Paris

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