Posted by: Gaybuddie | 2004/11/01

Gay and the church

My boyfreind of almost 3 years is now in a dilemma. After almost 3 perfect years our lives are starting to drift apart. Very confused and not sure how to go about it, we eventually got into a argument, and it came out that his church - German Lutheren church as most churches do, condems the homosexual lifestyle. Problem sounds obvious, but where do we go from here. I have my own way of justifying myself to myself. I've tried to explain how I feel and what I believe, but he is still not conviced. I don't want to loose him, but if he is feeling like he is doing wrong, then how can he lead a happy and sound life? How can I help him through this?

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Our expert says:
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Counselling? Sometimes it's worth checking with a local gay organization to identify gay-friendly counsellors and shrinks, who'll be better able to understand the nuances of the situation.
Whether it's about homosexuality or something else, relationships often are stressed and may even founder, over basic differences in beliefs like this. And maybe Joe's suggestion of the gay-friendly church will help you both to discuss the issues with an informed minister, before making your own decisions,

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Our users say:
Posted by: raincloud | 2004/11/02

Gaybuddie - sorry but I dont agree with what you are doing and $tuff - geez whats with the attitude here???

You must have really been hurt by a person claiming to be a "christian" otherwise why are you soo against it?

At the end of the day the choice is yours but you are happy with in yourself, do you feel peace in your life I found that in God and im not preaching to you...

Reply to raincloud
Posted by: $tuff | 2004/11/02

Oh puhleeze do not preach to me.. just because your little book says something does NOT make it so, and does not make all other religions wrong. Its right for you but definitely not for me. Perhaps if I'd not only encountered hypocracy, fire and brimstone, judgement, vanity, arrogance, close-mindedness etc. from so called Christians, I would be more open to what you say...

Reply to $tuff
Posted by: Acts29 | 2004/11/02

$tuff, it's a pity that you weren't there to "correct" Jesus and the disciples when they told people to stop sinning.
As for you and Ghandi:
"For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit." - 1 Thessalonians 4:7-8

Sadly, although I would like to claim it, your, and Ghandi's, hostility is not towards Christians, but towards God (Luke 10:16). I do not judge anyone, I simply tell them what the scriptures say. You, however, are judging, your words are not from the Word of God, but from the word of $tuff. So, whoever believes that $tuff is the Righteous Judge, that is your God given choice.

$tuff, we all stand condemned until we believe in Jesus Christ, He is the Only Saviour, stop rejecting Him.
Please don't put your hope in Ghandi, he could not save himself and neither can you.

Reply to Acts29
Posted by: Bubbles | 2004/11/02

I agree with Acts 29 & Demon
$tuff we are all entitled to opinions and thats exactly what Acts29 is doing...

You are right peoples lives ARE none of our business but when they come to a help site like this they are confused and wanting advice and thats what people do here is give there advice.

you also havent experienced God and his love as you seem quite hostile towards Acts29 answer which is sad bec those you are lost miss out on such freedom and peace that God gives to those who trust him.

Gaybuddie i hope that your eyes are opened soon to the truth.

Reply to Bubbles
Posted by: $tuff | 2004/11/02

As Ghandi once said, "Love your God, hate your Christians"
Especially those who think the nobody but God may judge another is an optional instruction... You say you are not judging but that is exactly what you guys are doing. How other people live is none of your business and not yours to condone or not to condone.

PS: I happen to be straight...

Reply to $tuff
Posted by: Acts29 | 2004/11/02

Hi, GayBuddie
It's clear that there are two ways of looking at your "dilemma".
You are right and your friend needs to change, or he is right and you both need to change.
We all find it easy to agree with what our ears are itchy to hear and often even the Truth is kicked out because it doesn't suit our agenda. I think rushing to change your partner may be hasty and even selfish. What if, regardless of what men and their changing ideas say, homosexuality is something that God has neither created us to indulge in or in any way condones? When your partner stands before God how do you think it’ll go down for him to say, “Well, my partner found a gay minister, and surely you can’t be upset, and everyone else is doing it, I couldn’t deny myself.”
Jesus gave up His very life for us. Is turning from homosexuality really denying your inner being or just turning from the sin Jesus saved us from … the sin that is so carved into us by the world, our experiences, and repeated lies that we sometimes think it is who God created us to be.
I hope, GayBuddie that you’ll understand that I don’t pretend that I’m perfect, or that any of us are. We all have to turn from our sin; we all have things that we have to struggle against. I can’t pretend I know what it’s like to be homosexual, but my life is riddled with other sin, I struggle against it because I have been saved from it.
Even if you feel your actions are not sinful, please, for your friend, don’t tear him away from a conviction God has placed in his life. You can easily take him to people who will tell him exactly what you want him to hear, people who love the sin and not the sinner. This life is so quick; don’t live for it, live for Jesus who loves the sinner, not the sin.

Reply to Acts29
Posted by: Demon | 2004/11/02

the name demon is not aimed at you so please do not take nic i use personal. Unfortunatly as I can not ecnolage homosexuallity nigther can i people messing around. Its against every fiber of my body and does not mean that i am jugging you but it is a perversion and does not go with the word of God. I will not and can not condone it!!!

Reply to Demon
Posted by: Gaybuddie | 2004/11/02

Hey there,

Thanks for all the positive responses... and no thanks to those of you who still live in the dark ages, and who have no idea the pain and torment that millions of people all over the world battle with everyday. Enough said about all that. For the possitive people out there who actually can think for themselves, and maybe be of assistance to me:

My partner and I live as a married couple. We eat live and sleep together everyday. We attend our family functions together, and love each dearly. We are faithful and we don't mess around as many other couples or people do. (both gay and straight)

I would greatly appreciate it if Joe could help me with contact details for his church in PTA, I'm sure he'll be able to help me make contact in Durban.

To Demon, do you really think that God would consider me a Demon? I think not. I believe strongly that God would support and Love all His children, and would rather guide them through people who have lived, and thought about life in a society where there is so much hate and murder.

This mail isn't intended to spark off conflict of difference of opinions, but rather to help me, and maybe other people who are in a similar situation.

Reply to Gaybuddie
Posted by: Demon | 2004/11/02

Sorry to say Homo sexuallity is wrong and is not biblically right. God createted adam and eve not adam and adam or eve and eve!!!!!!!!! It is because of sosiaty in general that has watered down morals and ethic so much that that it has become excepted. But that is live today every thing goes and when things go wrong we still wonder why God turns his back on this world!!! It has become a real sodom and gamora!!!! God help us!!!

Reply to Demon
Posted by: Joe | 2004/11/01

Hi Gaybuddie

I am in a gay church. Our preacher is very clued up on the subject and it might be worthwile to contact him for a one-on-one session. He is very approachable and played a big role in the NG church debate on accepting homosexuality.

I do not have the webaddress of the church with me but I will post it tomorrow if you want then you can contact him.


Ps Good luck - the church is in PTA though

And to P - to condemn the act is to condemn my inner being. You cannot seperate the two. Its natural to us - my thoughts though

Reply to Joe
Posted by: lady nina | 2004/11/01

hi there

i think each person must live according to his own conviction and unfortuneatly there is nothing you can do to help him

a person needs to have his head and heart in agreement about moral issues and only then can you be "happy"

the problem comes when you resionalize somehting with your "head and mind" yet your heart is uneasy about it - that leads to depression and a lot of inner conflict

i think you have to let him go and give him the space he needs to figure out what he wants.

personally i see the act of homosexuality as a sin and something that could cause me a lot of inner conflict, but i know a lot of homesexual people who is totally ok with what and who they are, that i can respect !

i can have a lot of respect for someone who acts according to his conviction even if it differs from mine but those people who do the "right" thing becuase they want acceptance from others even if they themselves don't believe what they do is right for them

act according to your conviction and sleep peacefully at night


Reply to lady nina
Posted by: P | 2004/11/01

How can you help him through this? So he is in the wrong with his conviction, not you? The way I understand it (en vergeet van die ng kerk wat weereens wys dat hul snotstrepe vir ruggraat het) is that the Bible might not condemn some-one from being homosexual, but does condemn the act.

What is your rationale? Either, like some-one having an affair while being married, you try to believe that there's nothing wrong with it, or do you think that the Churches who condemn such an act, are wrong?

Reply to P

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