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Question
Posted by: Very dissapointed | 2007/06/22

Doc pls dont mislead people

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Comment
Subject: What's your take?
Posted by: Khosi
Message:
Subject: HIV Scare
Posted by: Concerned Mom with ill domestic worker
Message:
Dear Cyberdoc
My domestic worker has just tested postive for HIV. I insisted she go for a test after her little son, aged six months, died of gastro a month ago - the doctors could not understand why he died as he was hospitalised immediately and one doctor advised me to counsel her re HIV. She got the results yesterday and was very open about it and asked for my help. I dont know how long she has had HIV for. She works for me every day and bathed her baby here and sometimes baths herself (she lives in a shack so I try and help her). She shares our dishes and cups and has even washed my baby's bottles (my son is two). I always sterilise the bottles though. I KNOW that HIV is only passed on through blood and sexual contact but I am still concerned. I never saw her bleeding but I dont know. I am now terrified my baby has picked it up. Am I worred fornothing? Should I get him and the rest of us tested?
Also, she has just told me she is 5 weeks pregnant. She's gone to the hospital today to get the necessary treatment and I bought her a huge pile of fuit and veg. Obviously, I must be really sensitive now but part of me wants to leave town to avoid this intense situation. i have already buried her first child, whom I loved, now what are the chances of this baby also dyiing. I also resent her bringing this virus into my house as my own child is very allergic and sickly. Is there an effective solution to all of this, I dont want to leave her in the lurch as I am all she has but I also want to protect my family?
Date: 29/5/2007

Subject:
Posted by: Cyberdoc
Message:
Dear Concerned mom
What you can do is to ask her to always put a dash of jik in the dishwater - that will kill any HIV viruses. It is unlikely that your baby picked it up unless she breastfed him ( which they sometimes do) so maybe for your own peace of mind, let them test him.
It is unfair labour practice to dismiss her because she has Aids, but you can put preventative rules in place, like using antiseptics in the bathrooms ( Aids is very sensitive and the virus quickly dies when out of blood or semen), only giving her cleaning duties and doing the cooking yourself, and to ensure that she goes for regular medical check ups and TB tests as one of the risks is that they develop TB ( or worse MDR TB) and infect your family. If she gets antiviral treatment and her CD4 count stays high, and the viral load low - the chances of spreading HIV infection or getting secondary infections like TB are low.
Date: 29/5/2007

Subject: RE: HIV Scare
Posted by: Concerned mom
Message:
Dear Cyberdoc
Thanks so much for the good advice, I wont dismiss her as she needs me more than ever now. She is also going to begin selling Nature's Health products on her days off to other people with the HI Virus. I hope this is a good product, I dont know much about it.
She went for a CD4 count and will get the help she needs.
I took the whole family for an HIV test and we are all negative thank Goodness. It is a lesson in overreacting and also learning to live with someone who is HIV Positive without all the stigma usually attached to that label. She has bathed in my bath, eaten of my plates, I have hugged her and kissed her and she has slept in my spare room (after her baby died) and no one in my family got HIV. I thought I should write just in case anyone else is worried about catching the virus just by sharing their house with someone with the virus.
But I will put jik in the dishwater etc just to be safe and will explain to her why. She says her sister is also worried about catching it from her so your advice has helped me counsel her sister as well
Thanks!
Date: 31/5/2007

I've been trying to think whether this was the best advice she could give. Wouldn't we now be a paranoid society? What about the restaurants (jik) and I think what kills me was the bit about the domestic workers sometimes breastfeeding the babies. I've heard of that in times of poverty, ill-health,war etc and in movies but was that now necessary? is this the kind of advice people out there get? What do you think?




Date: 21/6/2007

Subject: RE: What's your take?
Posted by: Ndoda
Message:
This so-called Cyberdoc is sick, ignorant and nogooder to society.
If there's an idea in his head about HIV, it's unfortunately in solitary confinement. Clearly, the full area of his ignorance is not yet mapped.
To quote Martin Luther King, Jr.: "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." like the one displayed by this so-called Cyberdoc.

Will paste it there for him as well.
Date: 21/6/2007

Subject: RE: What's your take?
Posted by: Gee
Message:
I'm a HIV positive mother to an HIV negative baby, should I be jiking my dishwater and myself?

should I not be touching my baby? and babies bump themselves, get sick... should I leave my baby to choke when I should be removing something from inside his mouth...

I think personally that if people keep to the basics of hygene, check yourself for abrasions and cuts, be vigilant about clean hands and sexual organs a lot of bugs are killed this way...

Date: 21/6/2007

Subject: RE: What's your take?
Posted by: Researcher
Message:
But there is nothing wrong with the Cyberdoc's response remember not everyone has information on HIV so the Cyberdoc is giving abc advice on living with HIV positive people you can never compare that with the information that we have.
Date: 21/6/2007

Subject: RE: What's your take?
Posted by: Researcher
Message:
But there is nothing wrong with the Cyberdoc's response remember not everyone has information on HIV so the Cyberdoc is giving abc advice on living with HIV positive people you can never compare that with the information that we have.
Date: 21/6/2007

Subject: RE: What's your take?
Posted by: Researcher
Message:
But there is nothing wrong with the Cyberdoc's response remember not everyone has information on HIV so the Cyberdoc is giving abc advice on living with HIV positive people you can never compare that with the information that we have.
Date: 21/6/2007

Subject: RE: What's your take?
Posted by: Ndoda
Message:
But Researcher if he is well placed to give advice, then he should do his homework/consult with those in the know-how before giving such shallow alarming advice.

What ths jik thing, anticeptics, no-cooking duties, TB & MDR TB(as if it attacks only housefulls)?

This is working against all the endevours to unstigmatise society. It's like this HIV is contageous or something.
Date: 21/6/2007

Subject: RE: What's your take?
Posted by: Anoneemas
Message:
I'm sorry this Cyberdoc person does not seem informed and very ignorant. This day and age people still mention sharing items with people, hugging and kissing.

There's a lot of information out there about HIV, people must get informed otherwise they will aleniate positive people...
Date: 21/6/2007

Subject: RE: What's your take?
Posted by: Khosi
Message:
I think it is Cyberdoc's personal fears coming to the fore Researcher, thinking what she would do were she in the situation. In this day and age you assume that everyone is HIV positive until proven otherwise, I wonder whether she follows this advice in her personal home, with her gardener etc? Is it practical? Imagine every household in South Africa being run like that. Now what about the food part, she should know that heat kills HIV, you would expect her to know that at least! The bigger percentage of this advice instils fear in this poor mom instead of giving her some degree of comfort and being constructive. I wonder how her practice is run, pity we don't live in a sterile world!
Date: 21/6/2007

Subject: RE: What's your take?
Posted by: Lelo
Message:
This Cyberdoc sounds like a white person.. plenty of them folks think this way..
"It is unfair labour practice to dismiss her because she has Aids, but you can put preventative rules in place, like using antiseptics in the bathrooms ( Aids is very sensitive and the virus quickly dies when out of blood or semen)"... Who said anything about the maid having AIDS?
This cyberdiot should have just told this paraniod woman that there's no way she and her family can catch the virus from sharing utensils, bathtub, preparign baby's bottles, etc etc ect.. not this jik and antiseptic nonsense!l Eish, abelungu.......
Date: 21/6/2007

Subject: RE: What's your take?
Posted by: Fe
Message:
i wonder what would have happened if the concerm employer tested +ve, was she going to blame it on the maid?
it's amazing that there are people out there who believe HIV is not for them.

Again the Cyberidiot, has minimal information about HIV. but atleast raised few good points to put the employer at ease. both the employer and cyberidiot deserve each other.
Date: 21/6/2007

Subject: RE: What's your take?
Posted by: V
Message:
An HIV positive domestic is a matter of concern though if you have a kid/baby. I am a + mom of a 4 year old - kid. one day as i was washing him in the morning he didnt want to put his hand in the water as he told me its sore, i asked mw helper what happened only to find out that she was cutting his nails using her teeth and it so happened that she went deeper into the flesh. i told myself not panick as there is not much hiv on the saliva. 6 months has passed and i am scared of testing my baby now and i dont know the helper's status.

I just told her not to ever do it again, i will cut my baby's nails myself if she cant use the nail cutter i bought.

With a helper who has six month old baby, chances are if your baby needs food and she is lazy to make a bottle, there a 50% chances that she would breastfeed him/her. I have seen it happening once (though not with my baby). The point is , these days its difficult coz you cant force your helper to get tested and you are not there during the day to monitor if she doesnt expose kids to the infection.

as for the cyberdoc she must go and get info on hiv, are we now not supposed to cook four kids? jik our plates, spoons and everything? stupid
Date: 21/6/2007

Subject: RE: What's your take?
Posted by: Khosi
Message:
V, I get your point. Justifiably I also have the same fears but told myself that I can only do so much to protect my child as I can't be with her 24/7; just the other day I asked here whether one needs to discuss blood issues with the nanny and all. I somehow managed to do it and hope for the better. I guess what ticked me with this was that Cyberidiot painted the worst possible unsubstantiated scenario with ill-fated facts instead of giving basic guidelines and providing some reassurance.
Date: 21/6/2007

Subject: RE: What's your take?
Posted by: Visitor
Message:
I think cyberdoc has shares in a jik making company, this will increase sales thus his dividens.

About the breastfeeding, the employer's son is two years, and the maids child died at 6months. REally what are the chances of having breastfed the employers child. Secondly, people need to remember where the history of maids breastfeeding their employers children.

It started mainly in England, where women of the upper class would employ what they called "a wet nurse", that is a poor woman who has a baby more or less the same age as the upper class woman, and her job would be to breastfeed the other child too, because then it was believed that breastfeeding would make your breasts sag. This trend was adopted during slavery and even here in South Africa where white women would actually go to local clinics to recruit highly pregnant black women just so that they could breastfeed their children. I can confidently say close to 60% of white south africans fed breastmilk from their nanny, because their mothers didn't want their breasts to sag. My mother was a domestic, and on two occassions was employed whilst queeing at our local township clinic by a pregnant white woman, the first time she was shocked and the second time she knew the deal and negotiated a higher package. This is why for our older parents, they don't see anything wrong with breastfeeding somebody else's child, and naturally there isn't, breastmilk is breastmilk so long as it comes from a human being.

My suspicion is that cyberdoc probably came across information that his nanny breastfed him/her when growing up and is now traumatised by it.
Date: 21/6/2007

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Our expert says:
Expert ImageCyberDoc

Dear all
Whoah !! - lets have a look at some facts:

You do not get HIV from an HIV-infected person by playing sports, working together, shaking hands, hugging, closed-mouth kissing, breathing the same air, sharing drinking glasses, eating utensils or towels, using the same wash water or toilet, swimming in the same pool, or coming in contact with their sneezes, coughs, tears or sweat. You also don't get HIV from bug bites or by donating blood.
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/hivinf.htm

HIV transmission from mother to child during pregnancy, labor, delivery, or breastfeeding is called perinatal transmission and is a small risk. http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/perinatl.htm

HIV infected patients can suffer from other concomitant infections if the CD4 count drops too low:

Diarrhoea is common amongst people with HIV. It can be caused by some anti-HIV drugs, medicines used to treat some infections, and in people with a low CD4 count diarrhoea may be caused by some opportunistic infections.
http://www.aidsmap.com/en/docs/C7DE3098-BDBB-4BC4-B039-BD363E52EF62.asp

TB is the leading cause of death among HIV infected people; the WHO estimates that TB accounts for up to a third of AIDS deaths worldwide.1 When someone is infected with TB, the likelihood of them becoming sick with the disease is increased many times if they are also HIV positive. http://www.avert.org/tuberc.htm

PCP is a kind of pneumonia caused by Pneumocystis carinii (P. carinii). Most people infected with P.carinii don't get pneumonia because their immune systems are healthy and strong. People whose immune systems are weak because of HIV infection can get PCP. http://familydoctor.org/online/famdocen/home/common/sexinfections/hiv/475.html

Someone who has a HIV neg baby and is HIV positive does not have to sterilize anything unless you know that you have a secondary other infection that may be transmittable and then you should take suitable precautions.

You don't HAVE to use bleach/Jik - The fact is that bleach kills HIV viruses and IF it will give peace of mind to the writer can be used. IS NOT COMPULSORY!

I know that some people is worried about blood getting into food - the chances of this causing HIV infection is around zero - but again, if the writer is worried about this, rather change the job description than losing the worker!

There are many very useful articles about HIV on the internet - just google HIV if you are unsure about the facts. Unfortunately there are still many misconceptions and fears about HIV in the general public. Not all people are sensitive to the rights of workers, which is why I mentioned the fact.

In future, if you are more knowledgable about a disease condition than me, please share your knowledge with the person asking the question, in a nice way? In this way all of us can learn more.

The information provided does not constitute a diagnosis of your condition. You should consult a medical practitioner or other appropriate health care professional for a physical exmanication, diagnosis and formal advice. Health24 and the expert accept no responsibility or liability for any damage or personal harm you may suffer resulting from making use of this content.

5
Our users say:
Posted by: Sparticus | 2007/06/22

What a bunch of fools to go against cyberdoc. One aids seminar does not make you informed. Untill you come up with a detailed solution to all aspects of aids/hiv, dont shoot down the brightest star.

Reply to Sparticus
Posted by: Very Dissapointed | 2007/06/22

She is an expert in this and I would rather listen and take her advice than to shoot her down. Hiv is a disease that affects us all, U might be - now not knowing that with my virus im bonking yo husband behind closed doors ( In that way u are also affected and Infected) and i can see that u are one of those that believe hiv will neva get them ( Keep on believing, i hope u will stay neg for the rest of yo life).<br><br>infected for they are NEVER born with the virus inside them<br>Every single baby is born hiv neg. It's through breast milk that they become infected ( U ARE REALY CLUELESS)<br><br>I think people should start learning more about this disease and educate each other instead of thinking its a black disease<br>It can not be u ( But mayb yo son,daughter, sister, husband, wife) HIV AFFECTS US ALL, WEATHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT. By the way im Hiv negative ( But i understand how serious this diseas is ( I lost my Aunt, and my 2 cousins to it)

Reply to Very Dissapointed
Posted by: Hiv- | 2007/06/22

CD is a brilliant doctor who knows more than all of you combined! She is an expert in this and I would rather listen and take her advice than to shoot her down as this only proves your own ignorance. Lets think about this, I know of two women, both friends of mine, who's maid breast-fed them without the parents knowledge. HIV IS PRESENT IN BREAST MILK and that's how most babies are infected for they are NEVER born with the virus inside them! Every single baby is born hiv neg. It's through breast milk that they become infected, that, or contact with the mom's blood during birth.

Reply to Hiv-
Posted by: Very Dissapointed | 2007/06/22

I give respect for the job she does everyday, but i think she is very Ignorant and does not seem informed<br><br>What you can do is to ask her to always put a dash of jik in the dishwater - that will kill any HIV viruses. <br> WHAT SORT OF NONSENSE IS THIS ( FOR A PERSON WHO IS ANSWERING FOR THE WHOLE WORLD).<br>She should have refered the CM the hiv experts, instead of answering the above. I STILL THINK WE ARE FIGHTING A LOST BATTLE.<br><br>Thank you, Doc.

Reply to Very Dissapointed
Posted by: Mike | 2007/06/22

I don't see anything wrong with the answer Cyberdoc gave, I hear all your concerns, but personally I don't think it was necessary to attack her or her advice, if you didn't like wat you had heard or wanted a 2nd opinion why didn't you just consult your own GP?

Reply to Mike

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