Posted by: NLM | 2005/01/06

do you know when you are to die ?

Most probably a very stupid question, but is there proof out there that a person can feel death coming their way ???

The reason for my question is this : When i got back from Rio and heard about Ruler's death, i was shocked to the T. My mind went back to our conversation on X-Mas day and these are some of the things he said.

1. He told me that CP MOM said she was to invite him to a gathering of people on this forum in the New Year, and was excited about the idea, but said he does not think he will be there to make it. ????
2. He also said that he found CS a remarkable person but knows he will never be able to meet him ????
3. Spoke about Shaun and said i must give him a hand shake for his awsome postings. Why me ??? He could do it himself i thought at the time .
4. Always spoke about CP MOM's child and said he wanted to raise a fund to help her, but time is running out. ??? I thought he meant that her child was critically ill or something.
5. When we parted, he hugged me for the 1st time in his life, and cause he was so strong, he almost crushed my chest . He went on to tell me where he hides his BMW's keys incase i needed it. I have my own BM, i dont need his. ????
6. Lastly, when i get back from Rio, i must send all on this forum his love. He planned going to Europe for a week and i thought he meant that when he had left i must do so. However, his sister said he was to leave on 31st January, so why could he not do it himself ????

Sorry, one last thing===he said at one stage that i must always make sure the street kids around Carlton Centre has food to eat. Why me, cause he feeded them himself. ????

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Our expert says:
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Well, I do believe that some people have premonitions, at times, but there can be other ways to understand the items you list. One is that after something significant and disturbing, such as losing someone we care about, we really badly want to make some sort of sense out of it, so we look back for clues, and ways to interpret events and remarks, in this light. For instance, several of us have thought fondly of the gatherings, but have had various reasons for expecting that we personally won't manage to get to one of them. And most people don't meet me --- that's not how this forum is structured. And so on. So it is also possible that each of the examples you quote have a different explanation, too.
And also, I tend to wonder why Ruler, good guy though I really think he was, visited this Forum. Presumably at various levels he himself felt sad and troubled, and wanted to explore such areas. Such people may feel what are eiher premonitions or more simply a sense of a foreshortened future, a feeling that they might not be around for long, for whatver reason that might be.
Sometimes, people with a range of problems engage in what we call Indirect Self-Destructive Behaviour ( with my old pal Norman Farberow, we once wrote a whole book about it ). They are not suicidal in the ways we usually think about it, but often engage in risky behaviours --- dangerous "Action" sports, some manner of neglect of their health and safety. In one study we found evidence that people who "have a go" at bank robbbers during a robbery, instead of just lying quietly and obediently until it is all over, were people of this type, and actually if their physical health or freedom was limited in some way, had a higher than usual direct suicide rate. To some people, it is a form of gambling with fate --- as one such guy ( now fortunately still alove and well ) said to me years ago, it was casting his fate into the lap of God, and, he said "If I live, then maybe God loves me. And If I don't, then it won't matter".
Also, as we grow older, and as we get exposed to the capricious and often arbitrary nature of life's dangers, we find, without expecting early death, that we no longer assume that we will have eternal life here on earth. We'll be happy to stay around while there are useful things to do, but no longer assume that we'll always be here.
At any rate, while respecting possible premonitions, we mustn't ( because it can be dangerous to do so ) assume that all such experiences are that, rather than, for instance, varieties of the gloomy thought patterns of Depression, because Depression can and should be, treated.
NLM< thanks for giving us the background information. Our thoughts continue to be with you and his friends. He was a good guy who at one stage seemed to allow his aggressiveness dominate, and then found a far better way to use those energies for good. I think maybe his scraps and conversations here helped him towards the excellent changes he was making ; it's sad that such a good "work in progress" got interrupted. Maybe a good memorial would be for each person who encountered him to find their own way to be useful and helpful towards others.

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Our users say:
Posted by: CP MOM | 2005/01/07

NLM - thank you so much for this last posting. I'm sooo glad that you told me this! Yes indead if that was the reason then EVERY MINUTE is worth it !

Reply to CP MOM
Posted by: NLM | 2005/01/07

Thank you all who have responded. CS, what you said makes so much sense. CP MOM, unfortunately i have to tell you that it was your child he spoke about. What happened was that some time last year you told your story on this forum and i read it and showed it to him. He read it and cracked. It was the 1st time in his whole life which i know of that he cried. It was since that insident he started feeding the children in JHB. Can i tell you something??? Ne changed his life and if it was for that reason she was born, then it was all worth it.

Reply to NLM
Posted by: Shaun | 2005/01/07

Thank you for your feedback. I can see it must not be very easy on you... I'm sorry about that, is all I can say. But I do thank you for finding the strength to talk about this.
Know that what ever you decide to carry on with, must be only because you can handle it. It is admirable the choice you have come to, I for one would really be impressed if you were able to fulfil his "requests", but please don't take on more than you can handle.
I had a distant relative once, a white guy who married into the family. He met the girl coz he had converted to Hinduism. He was very staunch in his beliefs & followed the religion very religiously. He also made many changes. He was a big man, in stature & heart, but he passed away more than 20 years ago. Today he is still remembered, by all the good things he did. We are often reminded about this as well, coz we go to Durban now & then. Getting there we have to go through Tongaat, don't know if you've ever heard of it, but there's a traffic circle there thats named after him... I am proud today to say, that was my uncle...

Reply to Shaun
Posted by: CP Mom | 2005/01/07

This person's death is a great loss to us all.

I doubt if he was talking about my daughter as I've never mentioned anything on this site about my financial status. I believe there are a lot of people who suffer financially who have disabled kids and the schools let them pay reduced rates and also the government helps. I pay the full fees not coz I have plenty bucks but because I can.

Ne is getting all the speach, physio & occupational therapy that she needs. So maybe he did think of it but I would have rather let us start sumthing for those who really REALLY really need it.

NLM - thanx for telling us all this.

Yes him and blackbird also had a couple of fights on this site if i remember - he obviously did not like bikers!


Reply to CP Mom
Posted by: NLM | 2005/01/07

Beyond tired, thanks for the kind words.==much appreciated.
Shaun, we grew up together in the same Orphanage but after school went our own ways. He became a Dentist, but fell back on his old ways till last year---i think March---he returned back to practise and started a new life. I by accident ran into him in P.E when the cops arrested him last year on New Years day for attacking a Biker who made remarks when he walked past. I stood in for him and they let him free under my supervision till the court case, but was dropped after 2 months.
For some reason in the Orphanage he would always share his deepest thoughts with me===he just trusted me and i dont no why, really.
What he would like me to do ?? Shaun, i think his passion for street kids became quite an obsession, so he would probably like me to carry on where he left of

Reply to NLM
Posted by: Shaun | 2005/01/07

I do believe that sometimes a person may sense imminent death, but how are we to know for sure. We can follow up on the signs, but I don't think we would know for sure coz the person did not tell us... Maybe he knew, maybe he didn't. I think the good thing here is that when he went, he is only remembered for the good things he did. If he really did know then I feel ok coz he was given a chance to make peace, & it seems like that is the steps he has taken. I've heard said before that if you have managed to change the world for the better before you go, then you have been a success. Even more so if the changes you made are carried on... Knowing him like you do, what do you think he would have liked for you to do? He confided some things in you for a reason, & I think one of those reasons were that he could trust you to fulfil them...

Reply to Shaun
Posted by: Beyond Tired | 2005/01/07

I firstly must say that it is very sad that the world has lost such a person, sorry I did not answer the other posting, didn't have words. Please convey my sympathies to all, and my prayers are with you too.

I do believe sometimes that people can sense when their time is near but only those very in tune with themselves. I know of a youngster who on the last day of school told his mother where their Christmas presents were and hugged her tightly to him telling her he loved her. She could not understand, but during lunch break he collapsed and died. It is not I am sure I nice thing to sense but also in a way can give the person the chance to change and make things better as I believe Ruler definitely did and he will be missed.

Take Care.

Reply to Beyond Tired
Posted by: Parker | 2005/01/07

I happened to know this person from the Gym at Village Walk. At the beginning of last year when i saw him for the first time, he trained like a maniac , as if he had an obsession about power and fitness. People in the gym was very weiry about him because they feared him.
As the year progressed, he started to calm down so to speak and at about November i overheard a conversation of him to a lady where she said to him that he will still kill himself in the Gym and he answered that he has taken a decission in life that everything he does, he does it with his whole heart because a day may come when he will no longer be able to do that and that day was not far.
He also mentioned to her that he was organising a fund raising for a woman's child and that it had to be done quickly, for time was running out. Could that be CP MOM's child ?
He also spoke with a soft tone of voice which in itself was strange to me. This is scary stuff to me.

Reply to Parker

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