Cyclists vs drivers
Last updated: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 Print
Niels Colesky Only a heart of stone would fail to be shocked at the news with which we started this week: on the road outside Oudtshoorn, a bakkie smashed into a group of cyclists, seriously injuring one and killing three. The injured party would not survive the day.
The driver of the bakkie had been overtaking a truck, and was allegedly blinded by the rising sun. He said he did not see the cyclists, and the cyclists, who had been training for this Sunday’s Cape Argus Pick n Pay Cycle Tour, had no chance to take evasive action. As a token of respect for the dead riders, and as a sign of protest at the carnage, many cyclists in Sunday’s Cycle Tour will be wearing black arm bands.
Every year, as the days to the Cycle Tour tick down, statistics mount of cyclists knocked down by motorists, but they only make the news if the accident is sufficiently horrific. Seldom do we hear about those cyclists who are merely injured.
When an incident does make the news, everybody has an opinion: cyclists bay for the blood of the unfortunate driver, motorists tell and retell anecdotes of cyclists’ disregard for basic traffic laws, and of multiple riders travelling abreast, spread across the road, blocking traffic. You might hope that tragedy, and the awareness that only the roll of the dice is what stands between us and injury, or a manslaughter charge, would draw us closer. But no, it seems to deepen the divide between cyclists and drivers.
When the debate comes to a neutral platform, the discussions follow a predictable path. The cyclists – broken and bleeding from metaphoric gutters – plead for understanding and consideration from the motorists. “We have the right to use the road,” they cry. Motorists’ responses are coloured by an apparently infinite supply of stored-up vitriol. Even the most compassionate people I've spoken to since the Oudtshoorn incident have been critical of the “majority” of cyclists. “As a group, cyclists don’t earn respect on the road,” one fellow-cyclist said. Each group damns the other for arrogance.
But this isn’t really about cyclists vs drivers. It’s about the fact that South African road-users show little respect for the fragility of life. We drive with a sense of entitlement, wrapped in a bubble of false security that “it won’t happen” to us. We text or talk on our phones while driving, many of us never wear seat belts, and who can honestly say that they have never driven with a couple of drinks under their belt? And that is as true for people who, the next morning, may well be taking their bikes out for a training ride.
Legislation is being put forward that requires vehicles to leave a 1.5m gap when passing cyclists. This is just what South Africa needs… more unenforceable legislation. And though it pains me to say this, before any cyclist can expect any motorist to respect that law, they need to get their own house in order. Don’t you get it, guys? In a crash you’re the bigger loser. As long as cyclists’ continue to claim the “right” of a road user while simultaneously ignoring red traffic lights, they forfeit the right to claim the moral high ground. Cyclists are too vulnerable to get away with the arrogance regularly displayed. Lose the attitude, ladies and gentlemen, and the four-wheeled Satans might change their attitude towards you.
But still, what can you say when a driver just goes ahead and overtakes when it is blatantly obvious that it is not safe to do so? The guy outside Oudtshoorn couldn’t see the cyclists. Would he have seen an oncoming car, or a pedestrian? He should not be allowed behind the wheel of a car. We’re reminded of this because, with the dust barely settled between Calitzdorp and Oudtshoorn, news came in from Soweto about two Mini Coopers drag-racing down a public road. The cars connected, and one rolled, ploughing into a group of students. Four of the students were killed and three were rushed to hospital with serious injuries.
It’s not about drivers vs cyclists. It’s about stupidity, carelessness, arrogance, and the cruel price paid by the innocents.
*Niels Colesky is a part-time cyclist who, on Sunday, will be taking part in his 8th cycle tour.
(Health24, March 2010)
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Your Comments
Basic disregard for road rules
I see this everywhere - on the side of the cyclist and the drivers. The cyclist are just a lot more vulnerable. If a bicycle crashes into four cars, it is not going to kill anyone, but the reverse is sadly not true.
Why is it them and us?
Why can we not just learn to use the roads together? Its like kindergarten kids fighting over toys in a sand pit. There is plenty for everyone! lets lean to work together and get the best for everyone.
Cycling is also good for the environment, its a old form of transport that will not just disappear so lets embrace it and work with cyclists.
Cyclists let's be considerate of motorists who really dont think we should be there either.
Argus No2 for me......
Common Sense
Just a motorist doesn't argue with a bus or truck (because you will most certainly come off second best) cyclists should be the ones who are more proactive and aware. No use moaning about drivers when you cycle 2 or 3 next to each other around blind bends..
Use your common sense and train to cycle - not talk. If you want to be social go to a bar or coffee shop.
bring on the Argus!! Its my first one!
Obey the rules ?
I do not know of one motorist who does not break at least one if not more rules of the road every time they drive and most cyclist who break the road rules are motorist who berak the road rules every day.
99 % of motorists disobey the speed limits. Most have jumped red robots and overtaken on solid line.
We all have to learn that the road rules are there to protect everyone.
make a lane
Broaden our roads a tiny bit and make a special lane for the cyclists. our roads are to small. if there was a specific lane for them to ride in then us motorists will stay out of there lane and they will stay out of ours.
Guardian angel
We all make mistakes now and then - I did something very silly the other day in a part of town I did not know - i tried to turn the wrong way into a one way. My guardian angel was on duty. Without that, things could have been very different.
SA roads to blame
I think that SA roads are to blame as our countries roads (most of then) do not cater for cyclists. All roads should be widen and a cycle lane added. Then again this cycle lane might just be another piece of rode TAXI's whould want to make use of.
Cyclists vs Cars
This is an age old argument that i don't believe will ever reach an agreement. I cycle most mornings, and see virtually every day, cars come speeding past, way over the speed limit hooting and so on, passing around a corner etc, whilst the cyclists are in single file. Why are they driving so fast ? Late for work ? Then get up earlier.....Also rememeber that sooner or later your own kids will more than likely want to learn to ride a bicycle.....an still live.
Cycling in general
I was told by a wise old cyclist that a car is harder than a bicycle and thus a will always pull on the shortest end of the stick in a collision. Yes it will be great to have a cycling lane - in your dreams will this ever happen as we cannot even address the basic bad condition of our roads. lets be realistic - the cyclists must ride defensively and be ultra alert about things happening around them and you look for problems riding 3 or more abreast as you will piss a motorist, including me, of.
Spandex warriors
i dont mean it to sound harsh but the majority of cyclist are complete idiots,never looking behind them,case in point i was stuck behind a group for 2km, all of them were driving in the middle of the road and not once did they ride on the side like they are supposed to. at least once a week this happens and then when you hoot for the spandex geek to move over he returns your gesture with a middle finger. its all got to do with respect,they need to respect the fact that they are on a bicycle
Be realistic
I am a cyclist myself (mountain bikes, no road) and I shake my head multiple times a day looking at these stupid road cyclist.
I dont care if you have a right to be on the road or not you are a 90kg twig cycling with 1.5 ton projectiles, use some common sense and have a bit of fear.
I often see cyclist laughing and talking to their buddies while cycling in parallel to each other and suddenly losing balance and going into the road. Use your instincts and don't rely on rules to stay alive
Same applies
The same applies to motorcyclists. Ride defensively and you will live to tell the tale. Frankly have had enough of cyclists who ride two-four abreast on busy roads without even an emergency lane. But the car must move out the way into or partway into the other lane (if there is one) and take the risk.
When I was in nursary school, we used to be taken to the traffice dept to learn the rules of pedestrians and cyclists. Clearly they don't do this anymore as cyclists don't seem to know the rules
Both sides are to blame
Many cyclists ignore the rules of the road and are arrogant (just as they would be if they were in cars), doing stupid things. They do things like ride side-by-side, ignore traffic lights, etc. Motorists are also generally arrogant on the roads, believing that everyone must do as they want, stay out of their way, etc.
It comes down to many cyclists having no respect for other road users and the same from many motorists. The motorists are simply in the lucky position of not risking as much.
Cyclists
Don't ride next to each other on a road, you are going to come off second best. Ride single file. And don't have an attitude like " I own the road" . You will be knocked down, and become a potato or tomatoe. Get yourselfs a " lounge bike" with a laptop. Then you and all your buddies can " hook up" and go for a spin, all in the safety of your own lounges. And you don't even have to fix a puncture.
@Andrew
That's no solution. I cycle, drive a car and ride a motorbike. Regardless of what I'm using I end up having to think for almost everyone I encounter on the road. Why should the solution be so one-sided? Yes, cyclists must take responsibility for their actions (and many do cycle like morons), but equally, motorists should not be absolved just because they're not the ones who'll be injured in an accident. The solution involves both sides. Otherwise we just end up with more of the same hate.
Everyones responsible.
Firstly I cycle my mountain bike on the public road by myself so nobody riding abreast, I cycle close to the pavement but I still get drivers nearly hitting me with their mirrors, mostly taxi's are guilty of this! It seems they either can't judge distance or they have something against a person on a bike. Secondly cyclist who ride abreast and who treat the road as their own are looking for trouble! With said it seems there needs to be responsibility from both sides.
@Moebie
Motorists
Don't drive like idiots, driving on the shoulder or overtaking on solid lines. Use your indicators (cyclists aren't psychic). Don't have an attitude like " I own the road" . You will injure someone. Get yourselves a couch and a driving game. Then you and all your buddies can " hook up" and go for a spin, all in the safety of your own lounges. And you don't even have to pay for petrol.
We all use the road
We are all road users. This has been a sad day for cycling. But thinking about it, I must say, it also is a very sad day for motorists (there is blood on the hands). I will be wearing a black armband on Sunday's Argus - in memory of all the cyclists who died
Pedestrians have rights too!
It's total lack of respect for anyone else. As a regular pedestrian all I see are drivers blatantly ignoring stop streets, crossing barrier lines and driving even when pedestrians are crossing at the green man - last week I saw a car narrowly miss a pram which was legally crossing - come on, drivers, do you seriously want a baby's death on your conscience for the sake of a few seconds. Its a battlefield out there!
LAW
Should make it law that cyclists keep behind each other unless it is SAFE to pass!
License
Do cyclists pay annual licenses to use their bicycles on the road?
No.
Cyclists keep whining about respect - but I always see cyclists riding abreast. Earn your own respect, because when you block traffic you wont get sympathy from me.
@Anonymous
What has a licence got to do with it?
There are cyclists who ride abreast and there are many who don't. However, that hardly justifies motorists running them down or off the road. Next time I'm out on my motorbike or bicycle and I see a motorist not using their indicator or speeding or not stopping at a red traffic light or whatever I'm going to rip a side mirror off - after all, they clearly don't deserve any respect. Or you could stop pretending that only cyclists are the problem.
Motorists
The cyclists are not to blame. The motorists are not to blame. They both are. Look at the stupidity of motorists far from any cyclists. Some cyclists skip stop streets etc, but then so do motorists. The speed limit is 60kph but most motorists drive more than that. So it is not only the cyclists breaking the law. It is also the motorists. It is not only some cyclists who need to lose the attitude but some motorists as well.
bum bikers
my comment slightly deviates from the article however i find cyclists to be mostly courteous and i personally tend to have a cordial relationship with most of them however its these bum motorbike riders that are incredibly hazardous on the roads, weaving in and out of traffic, reckless acceleration, crossing solid barrier lines just absolute menaces ... this being said it wouldn’ t hurt if all road users were a bit more accomodating.
Cyclists vs Motorists
I live in an area which is hugely popular for cycling.
I love the sport myself and do as much of it as i can... however, last week saturday, i was on the road at 6am, and was very disappointed in the attitude and behaviour of the group of cyclists. Many of them in the middle of the road, halting traffic etc. I was tolerant as i am a cyclist, but i can only imagine the frustration that other motorists must of been feeling... I think that most cyclists need to learn proper road etiquette.
Bad Attitudes
Ive been racing mountain bikes for 5 years. I tried out the fast one road race the other day on a borrowed road bike & ended up in the top 10 of the A-bunch finishers. I HAVE to say - roadies are far too arrogant and agressive. Even during the race the pack wouldnt get out the way of passing vehicles, lots of verbal & sign abuse & blatent aggression between motorists & cyclists. Ive since decided not to go the road route. I was embarrassed as a cyclist they way these guys behaved!! idiots!!
@RL
Yep, just like motorists, those motorcyclists. How dare they!
CYCLISTS ON FREEWAYS!!
Here in East London we have cyclists on the N6 freeway every day despite them riding past " No Bicycle" signs as big as cars. That is against the law. Also against the law is not stopping at traffic lights and stop streets. You break the law you are going to get hurt - no use crying about it.
@SP
Ah, so these cyclists that were killed must have been breaking the law otherwise they'd be alive?
@Tsotsi
That is law already. Cyclists are supposed to ride in single file, and if there is a shoulder they should do so well inside the shoulder (as in left of the yellow line, not on it!)
Not denying that the motorist was being irresponsible, I will bet that if those cyclists near Oudtshoorn were in single file, at the side of the road, they would still be alive. Thats called taking responsibility for your own safety, instead of trusting others to obey the rules.
@Carey
Ignorance is part of the problem, too:
Regulation 296 of the National Road Traffic Regulations 2000 states: “ A person driving a vehicle on a public road shall do so by driving on the left side of the roadway … .” . Driving is defined in the Act to include riding a bicycle. There is no requirement to ride on the far left of the roadway or on the shoulder. The Road Traffic Regulations impose the same obligations on a bicycle as on a motor vehicle in this regard.
no more road riding for me
There's been a dramatic decline in the attitude and driving skills of the average South African motorist over the past 10 or 20 years. One has only to cycle in Europe to see that safety has very little to do with cycling lanes and riding abreast, and everything to do with mutual tolerance and respect. After a narrow escape recently I decided to give up road-riding here, except in events where there's full road closure. Fortunately we're blessed in SA with ever-increasing choice of MTB routes!
We get bad drivers and cyclist
We should stop accusing one another. I think it is the attitude of the South African people driving and cycling on South African roads. We don't obey the rules of the road...that is it.
Cyclists not to blame
These cyclists were all riding single file, same as the two cyclists who got knocked off their bikes on Ou Kaapse Weg as well as the cyclists who got killed in Tokai, Milnerton and Durbanville. They wre killed while riding in the yellow line. The people who keep on blaming cyclists are obviously not cyclists and have no idea what it is like when a car passes you at 120km/h with only cm between you and a certain death.
Cyclist in abunch is safer than in single file!!
Comment continue
A bicycle needs at leas 3 metres when riding single file, a group of 10 riders will therefor be more than 30m long. Just emagine passing them on a narrow road keeping in mind that most motorists don't slow down for cyclists!
A bunch is bigger, more visible and safer - a car has to slow down and can only pass when it is safe to do so. Notorist slow down for tracktors and bulldosers who are both slower than bicyles.
For cyclists there is syfety in numbers and size!!
Blame the roads
There is a speed difference between the 2 vehicles. If the roads where adequate for both, there would not have been such a problem. For instance, look at the not cyclist friendly M31 (close to the M13 in Durbanville) with heavy peak hour traffic, dangerous !! Cyclist are in danger when using this road. Roads are the real problem.
It's all about me.
These deaths and injuries occur because of one simple fact. Both the cyclists and drivers have no regard what so ever for anyone else using the road. Simple road courtesy is law in this country, look it up. How would you drive if you knew a loved one cycled the same route you where taking. How would you cycle if you acknowledged you actions could result in the death of a loved one or a criminal conviction of fellow human being?
Well Written
Well written Niels ....
Cyclists
Maybe they are in training for some or other race. However the road does NOT belong to you the cyclist. Motorists are made to travel behind bunches of twenty or more who spread out in the entire lane and to hell with the motorist who pays for the privilage to be on the road in the first place.
Police
I live in New Zealand now after years of cycling on SA roads. Here in NZ you feel safe. The law states that a 1.5m gap must be left between car and cyclist. Only over take when safe to do so. The speed limit in the city is 50km/h and 100km/h on motorways. The difference between NZ and SA, the police are respected and enforce the law here compared to SA where its a free for all.
Cyclists vs motorists
It sort of whips up the same senario of killing the big shark that attacks a human on it's own turf. Highways are made for cars and trucks, not for bicycles.
Cyclists Cyclops
The cyclists all ride bunched up, taking up a large chunk of lane. If this group was all in single file, obeying the firs rule of the road, which is keep left as far as possible, they would still be alive today. Single file with a bike length inbetween, giving space for a faster cyclist to over take when it is safe to do so.
Nice one Niels!
& I did enjoy this particular comment tho - " I think that SA roads are to blame " ... YES , the PHYSICAL TARMAC IS TO BLAME!!! Why take responsibilty ourselves (err.. cyclists included ) when we can blame the " BITCH-UMEN" .
never ceases to amaze....
Goldfinger
Cyclists-motorists-road rules etc
As a person who has had the privilage of driving hired cars in other countries,I can honestly say that the standard of driving,and obedience to the rules of the road,and of courtesy to other road users,is probobly one of the worst in the world.South africans have become a lot of rude arrogant opportunistic,selfish people,with no respect for law and order.The standard of driving is symptomatic of a general attitude which unfortunately prevails,assisted by an unmotivated traffic police force.
Wow what an opportunity!
-|-//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
Take a look at the figures on this chart. The fact is that as this is clearly a dispute, one needs to step away from the trunk of the tree if you want to see more than the bark. Death and injury for road users is sad. Why not use this as nation building exercise. Stop assigning blame start becoming problem solvers. Unite to come up with innovative suggestions. Do a Madiba! Make it greener safer and happier for everyone
@CTheB
You're a vegetable!!!!!
cars and bikes
Wo's at fault? the metro police, they sit under trees pointing their radars at cars, and let everyone do as they please on the roads, if we as parents let our kids do as they please what do you get, little brats, same on the roads, until we have a police force that is interested in road safety, and leaders that are people that we can all look up to and respect, then the roads are going to get worse, much worse, mark my words.
cyclists
I have yet to see a cyclist with respect of other road users in cars. They paddle as if the road belongs to them, without respect, forcing you to cross into the lane of the oncoming traffic, or to come to a nearly halt. What nonsense is this. Roads are for cars, and when provision is made, for bicycles. If no space, stay of the main dragg. I have often been in near accidents because of rude bicycle paddlers. I don't practice a sport that put other people in danger, why must they?
Cyclists vs motorists
What is better? be a cyclist with an attitude and dead or maimed, or without and alive? Dont take it for granted that you have been seen. The same goes for pedestrians.
Stay of the roads
Cyclist do not have the right to use roads, bicycles is made for school children that needs to get to school and back and can use the pavement to ride on, it wasnt made for 40 year old males with big noses to live out their midlife crisis years
This is Africa
Some road users, have, will and are going to die Fact.
You need a drivers license to drive a car on a public road. You need a license for your car to be on a Public Road. Your car Must have mirrors. Why not the same for " Drivers " of Bicycles. A lane for cyclists ? get real folks this is Africa, where do you think the funds are going to come from .How many bicycles have mirrors ? erm try none. Could those mirrors have HELPED to prevent the collision, YES it could have HELP. PS a Am a cyclist,
Respect For All Road Users
I feel for the cyclist,they do get the worst of it,yes there are some of them who do not think about the drivers and sadly our roads are not designed for cyclist in mind,leave alone for motor vehicles.
Cycling
Road cyclists.... U get taken out by cars, trucks, taxi's, busses. Mtn Bikers.... U get taken out/maimed by groups in veld weilding panga's, rocks, garden shears.
Where to from here?
Perhaps missing the point
Firstly, my condolences to all those killed and injured in this tragic accident.
I see everyone jumping on the " attitude bandwagon" . Peoples lives should not depend on " attitude" . Why is their no standard for roads in our country? Each lane is 3m wide, with a 1m shoulder a and shall have cats eyed 10m apart, with a shoulder and footpath of 500mm on one side? See i can write a spec, what are our roads department doing? Why are all our roads differnent?
Roads
In my area, there are dedicated bicycle lanes painted on the shoulder of the road. In fact, it was specifically laid, thanks to the person who organised that to happen. However, it is so uneven, road bikes cannot use it, only Mtn Bikes. Very unprofessionally laid. Secondly, it only exists where convenient. Certain sections it dissapears and you have to take your chances with the traffic. So, it seems that the bicycle lane is more of a " look what we did for our community" , but mostly useless.
@Moebie
Oh no, ad hominem instead of an argument. What am I going to do? Oh dear, how will I carry on with my life now? Oh, woe is me.
To those claiming cars own the roads
Actually, the roads were made for vehicles. The only roads meant exclusively for motorised vehicles are freeways (even most of the M5 is not a freeway). Motorists do not pay for the privilege to use the roads, they pay a fee for maintenance of the roads because cars damage the road. The damage from bicycles is so slight that collecting a fee to cover it would cost more than any damage to the roads.
@Anonymous
No bicycles have mirrors and you're a cyclist. So you're moaning at cyclists for not having mirrors and yet you don't have one yourself? By the way, I do have a mirror on my bicycle and yes, it does help - it saved me from a motorist who thought it'd be fun to turn a corner with her head under the dashboard. Also, the cyclists mentioned in the article were killed head on, not from behind (or they'd have been on the wrong side of the road). (...)
@Anonymous (cont)
(...)It's true that a licence is required to operate a motorised vehicle on a public road. This is precisely because the vehicle is motorised and is a dangerous weapon. SA is a great demonstration that the possession of such a licence is pretty much meaningless, however. You pay an annual vehicle licence which (supposedly) goes toward road maintenance because cars are heavy and damage the roads. Cyclists don't pay similar fees for the same reason pedestrians don't pay to use the pavement.
compare
99% of Cyclists are ignorant and believe the roads are build for them. If you look at runners you seldom get this attitude that cyclists have. Some cyclists are so obese/muscaline? that you cant even see the bicycle, how do they handle the bike with that body, but when it is Argus time, old, young, fat, thin, clever, insane, funny clothes and even people that won't be allowed driving a car is on the roads. Take them of the roads we as motorists are sick and tired of cyclist.
A little bit of this and a little bit of that.
At the end of the day out Traffic department sucks - if the rules were carried out with force without the bribery. SA's roads would be a lot better. Everyone is to blame Cyclests, Bikers Drivers of Motor vehicles. If we condition ourselves it might help. Practice consideration.
@ CTheB
Dude I ran out of space. Firstly I don't ride on roads, I'm not foolish enough for that. Do you think that if road cyclists had to pass a licensing exam it might help. They are after all road users.
WRT the head on collision, how many cyclists were where, 8. There they riding next to each other, yes, the bakkies break marks attest to that. PS Thanks for confirming that mirrors do help, why is it that those cyclists who think the roads belong not use them, (it's uncool, spoilt image....)
Response
I still cant understand why we are still at the same point after so many episodes and lives lost. South Africa is just the pits when it comes to enforcing appropriate behaviour, we are failing guys and the sad part is that we will not make the changes until thousands more lose their lives. Lets get up and make a difference cyclist and motorist and zGovernment - lets be heard and seen.
Just my opinion!
I live in East London, there is a group of cyclists that ride down the main road of Beacon Bay every morning, on numerous occasions I as the vehicle driver have had to cross to the oncoming side of the road to pass these guys. The group rides about 6 or 7 abreast! This is one of reasons I am one of the first ppl to ask what the cyclists were doing wrong, when you hoot at them to move over they often " flip the bird" at you and they have no problem with swearing at us either.
Crazy but fun
I climb off my spinning bike onto my mtn bike and ride the Argus, its safer that way :-) 1st one last year.
@Anonymous
Most cyclists are almost certainly also drivers, so they've already passed an exam. As I pointed out, it doesn't seem to make any difference for people driving cars, so I see no reason why it'd make a difference for cyclists.
There were 11 cyclists and I've seen no reports that state the cyclists were riding single file or in a bunch. Where is the report that the skid marks prove that the cyclists weren't riding single file? (...)
@Anonymous (cont)
(...)Even if the cyclists were in a bunch, the driver was negligent not to check that the road was clear before overtaking. If the cyclists were close enough to be hit by him he's admitted that he couldn't see far enough to overtake safely, but did so anyway.
Cyclists who don't use mirrors on the road are simply foolish. Those who're arrogant and behave like motorists (believe they own the road) are doubly stupid. However, that doesn't mean they should have to think for motorists as well.
Speed Differences the real problem
If everyone drives at the same speed always, there will be no need for overtaking. This unfortunately is impracticle. On our roads we have loads of overtaking due to this. We have 1. pedestrians (slowest), cyclists, Skedonk cars that putter along, Trucks, Busses and taxis, road cars, and superbikes (fastest) that all drive at different speeds. The more we can do to get everyone at the same speed, the less accidents we'll have.
Disrespect
I can relate to the story as motorist, On Sat morning travelling between Centurion and PTA approaching a group of cyclists of cause they are considered raod hazards drive with caution, out group of eight cyclists one decided to move in front of my car, had no idea what he was thinking but if anyone think of it he endenger all of them because if I did not approach with caution and I'm forced to apply emegerncy braking every one could have been affected. That was desrepct, irresponsible and stupid
Stupid Nic
Nic says : Make a lane. Pleasseee ! they can not even maintain the current lanes, how are they going to make one just for you ? !
Cyclists vs drivers
never met a cyclist who does not act if the world belongs to them - not only roads and as far as I am concerned they are all a..h...s.
@Deon
Yeah, they're strangely like motorists that way.
Cyclists vs the World
As a runner, I found the Cyclists equally rude and inconsiderate towards me when im out on the roads in the morning. To such an extent that when a group of them were out riding (5:30 on a sunday morning) The made no Space for me and they forced me to fall down the embankment on the side of the road. Not one of them stopped and asked if i was ok or even apologized they just rode off.
I say Ban all recreational cyclists from the rd, and find some track far away from the rest of us to ride!!!
@cyclist
you are a total moron. Yes a group of cuclists are more visible, but the road belongs to the cars. No wonder you get ridden over every other day, you think you own the road and people SHOULD make room for you. NO!
I had the distinct pleasure two years ago in Jhb to tell a group of cyclist to drive single file or get wiped out. As I drove away, I looked in my mirror and saw them laughing and bundling up. Twenty seconds later, two cyclist were knocked down for being in the middle of the road.....
Ban cycles
I personally hate bicycle riders, as they have no respect for other road users. They drive as if they own the road, and when they get driven over(in the middle of the road) they want to blame everyone for being inconsiderate. BULL!
They need to ride around on sidewalks that are made only for them. No injuries will take place.
Its all about respect
It is all about respect for the law - or lack of it. Unfortunately 99% of south africans have no respect for the laws of the road and are the biggest " blamers" , blame the cyclists blame the taxis blame the trucks blame the motorists, instead of all being accountable for our actions and start respecting the laws of the road - they are there for a reason to save lives. Sadly more people are killed on the roads in this country than the high crime rate. Breaking all laws are a criminal offence!!!!!!
@Jack
Yeah, it's annoying when people on bicycles act like motorists, isn't it?
Respect and tolls
Seems like many motorists here want to ban cyclists as they have no respect. Motorists drive the same way - disrepectfully. To me a motorist cutting infront of another car is equally disrespectful. Driving over the speed limit is breaking the law. So you can't preach if you don't also practice! Why do trucks pay more tolls? Because they cause more damage. It has nothing to do with paying for the right to use the road. Why does SARS tax people more with higher incomes than lower incomes?
@Tripod
You have the mentality of a two year old. If you are old enough to have a license you should not have to be " policed" , blaming metro for everything. when you got your license you were meant to know the rules of the road and abide by them or are you just one of the many who have bought there license. If motorists did not break the law by speeding the metro would not have to sit behind their camera's. something you dont seem to think about.
Motorists
What about those two motorists who killed the school kids? No cyclists involved there and motorists drove recklessly, stupidly and disrespectfully.
Cyclist
Came over a hill at 120km/h, bicycles in bunch, chatting, having a ball, eating their bananas. Braked, couldn't pass because of traffic from the front, sat there at 20km/h and decided to blow the horn softly, next moment if was vulgar signs, one cyclist fell back out of the group and broke my mirror, R3000 later - and I don't feel much for the cyclist anymore, sorry! Wear your black armbands....
@Jack
seeing two cyclists getting knocked over was a " distinct pleasure" ? Because it meant they were punished for disregarding your instructions, presumably? Only someone with an ethical screw loose, or someone who has real authority issues, would take pleasure in witnessing others getting injured. Shame on you.
Licences!
I'm all for more & more people using bicycles, it will help at relieving traffic congestion & is environment friendly. But to use the roads one needs a licence. Bicycles are not licenced for road use neither are the cyclists licenced to operate the bicycle on the road. By that rationale they are illegally using the public roads. But they are tolerated. Solution: Subject all bicycles & cyclists to licencing.
Take care
If you want to play with the big boys, expect to get hurt. Common sense tells me the roads were designed for motorised vehicles, and not for cyclists. The power, speed and weight of vehicles out weigh a flimsy cycle. Go play elsewhere where it is safe for your runs. I would love to cycle and have thought about it, but the danger, I find other safe means of exercise. Don't get -|- ey with big boys. Unfortunately more WILL be killed on the roads. You are not" bullet proof"
Respect
It's a travesty that we debate who has the right to be on the road, the cyclist or the motorist. Well frankly we both have that right and we need to respect " ons medemens" . What examples are you to your children if you get satisfaction & pleasure from someone else's pain. Sick, that is what it is!!! Stop acting like children and be the adults. Be CONSIDERATE on the road whether you are a motorist or a cyclist.
@ Jack
You clearly are a moron living in your own little universe. Cyclists have as much right to be on the road as you do. Why don't you practice some tolerance for your fellow human being and maybe just maybe you will grow a personality. Karma is a b!tch Jack it comes back to you ten fold!!!
@Jack
All I can say to jack is that one day it could easily be your kid thats knocked down by an inconsiderate, self centered driver like yourself who think they own the road, and always in a mad rush, primarily because they are lat edue to their own inability to get out of bed and leave for work early enough leaving enough time to get there without driving like a maniac. I wonder how you will feel when someone else smiles in their rear view mirror when your kids get run over whilst riding their bikes
@license
To say that bicycles are not allowed on the road because they do not have a license is virtually the same as saying all pedestrians on the road should also have a license.
Hey here's an idea, since pedestrians don't pay a license etc.
Can we mow them down as well, like some idiots mow cyclists down ? After all they often block traffic ??In fact I think the law is on the pedestrians side in that if you kill a pedestrian, you are guilty until proven innocent. Should be the same for cyclists.
@jack
Oh, Mr Jack, last time I looked the law allows cyclists on the road, so it seems clear to me that you think you own the road when you say bicycles shouldn't be on the road. You also seem to me like a driver who has never ever broken an traffic law in their life.......a real road angel. I bet I can guess the type of car you drive as well........most of the idiots on the road stick to one or two specific models.
Won't solve much...
It saddens me to read some of the messages and replies. They show that there is little respect for life in this country. The fact that we drive, cycle, walk and run with little regard for one another and the law (which, after all, is nothing more than the collective sense of the nation formalised) means that this sort of issue will not go away any time soon.
I am a licensed driver, a (careful) cyclist, sometimes a runner and pedestrian. We should all respect each other's rights on the road.
@Henry
No, it's your opinion that tells you the roads were designed for motorised vehicles. Roads existed long before motorised vehicles did, so clearly roads were not designed for motorised vehicles. Your attitude that motorised vehicles don't have to have any respect for non-motorised vehicles on the road, based on your opinion that the road somehow belongs only to motorised vehicles, is part of the reason why the roads are so dangerous for cyclists.
@CtheB
So when the roads were designed, did they work on motorised vehicles and cyclists (cycle lanes) or just motorised vehicles.Let me illustrate. Are you going to allow little children to play soccer on the rugby field while there is a full blown national team playing?. Child has a right to play soccer. Who is going to get hurt? We are not talking of roads when the wheel was invented. I did not say or imply there should be no respect. I am saying think about it and find alternative for own safety.
@CtheB
I also said that unfortunately more WILL be killed under these circumstances and I have just read that two cyclists were knocked down this morning in Hermanus and are in hospital. Whether the motorist is right or wrong,or the cyclists is right or wrong, cyclists come off second best.Trying to force/coerce people to be respectful in this day and age is futile.
Subject under discussion
The question is not so much about cyclists[although that would be symptomatic of the problem]the problem is the attitude of the average South african today.ie ,rude ,arrogant,me first,selfish,irrisponsible,couldnt care less.If cars and bikes and bicycles hadnt been invented, it would and does manifest itself in other ways as well.Who stops at a pedestrian crossing when a person is standing at the side waiting to cross,who stops dead at a stop street,its merely treated as a yield sign.etc etc etc
@Henry
Yes, you did imply that there's no need for motorists to have respect for cyclists on the road by saying that the roads were designed for motorised vehicles and therefore cyclists have no business being there. Your comparison to children playing soccer on a field while a national team plays makes no sense because unlike teams on a field, cyclists (those who're not being foolish) only use part of the road, not the whole thing. Motorised vehicles, likewise, generally don't take up a whole lane.
@Henry
The cycle lane is a relatively recent addition, but most are simply an explicit indication to motorists. Yes, bicycles were taken into account when designing the roads. Most lanes are plenty wide enough to accomodate a bicycle and all but the largest vehicles. Yes, under the current circumstances cyclists will get injured because there are idiots on the road (on bicycles and in cars) who are arrogant enough to believe that no one else has a right to use the roads.
@Cthe B
Oh my word!!! So you want to split hairs.. OK so don't take the whole field, play on the side line, you will still get hurt. It does not matter what part of the road you ride on. The bigger, faster,heavier will hurt you.You can only dodge the bullets for so long...No I do not say they have no need to have respect, otherwise I would drive over every cyclist I saw on the road if that was the case.The theme of my posting is to weigh up the situation as it is, think of your own safety and find ...
@CtheB
....safer place to ride.It would be less stressful and be relaxing and less pollution in your lungs. Maybe we can start something like a " cycle park" with uphills, downhills and whatever else you want in it. " Here lies the body of John Brown
Who had the right of way...
Now mouldering in his grave "
Cyclists v Cars
This is a very sad state of affairs this thing about cyclists v cars. We try our best to respect the cars, but some of them (I have to say only some) just thinks you are an irritation on THEIR road it seems. We do not go over red lights etc, but you will still find the car that just won't wait for you to cross over even though the light is green for you. As if to say, we've got right of way. The law should really really seriously look at this aspect of road users.
Rush hour in Cape Town
I had a real problem driving to work last week on one of Cape Town's notoriously narrow roads: a cyclist had decided it was prudent ot do his Argus training on this steep, narrow road in the height on morning traffic. With lanes barely wide enough for the cars moving in both directions to pass safely during heavy traffic (ie no shoulder, and a bus would be too wide to fit inside a lane), one would hope cyclists would plan their training schedule and route with a little more common sense.
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