Incest shock
Last updated: Monday, November 28, 2011 PrintRomania is considering following in the footsteps of France, Spain and Portugal by decriminalising incest.
But Romanians are divided in their views about decriminalisation. Anuta Popa, a 22-year-old woman in the western city of Cluj, said she doubted that incest ever happened by consent in her country, saying it was more likely that the man was drunk and violently attacked his sister or mother.
"Incest should not be legalised. If they want to have sex, better to say a prayer and remember that God sees them," she declared. "I would castrate them."
Iosif Damian, a 56-year-old cleaner, said he was unsure if consenting adults should be jailed for incest but added "I think it is shameful all the same. "Or (if) they are ill and prison is not a solution, they need medical help," he said.
One 27-year old chauffeur did not see any problem with the legal change. "If brothers and sisters want to have fun, why should they be imprisoned? It is nobody's business what I do in my bedroom," Ionut Breazu of Cluj told the Associated Press.
And then there are the moral dilemmas over incest.
"It generates a confusion of roles," says Romanian psychologist Aurora Liceanu. "Imagine how can one explain to a child that his father is also his grandfather?"
Yet around Europe, there is some acceptance of consensual incest among adults.
Irish homemaker Margaret Henry, 42, said society shouldn't be so concerned about it. "(Why are they) arresting people for what they do in their own homes, as long as they're adults and they're not hurting each other?" she asked.
South Africa
The law says that people who may not get married to each other because they are in the same family also can't have sex with each other. If they do, then one or both of them (in the case of consensual sex) might be charged with the crime of incest. But the people involved are usually an adult and a child in the same family. Usually it is an adult man in the family forcing a child to have sex.
Recent reports indicate that one in two children have experienced some form of sexual abuse before the age of 18, says Joan van Niekerk, national coordinator of Childline, an organisation that assists children who have experienced abuse.
Tragically most cases of abuse go unreported. The full extent of statistics therefore remains unrecorded. "Boys significantly under-report sexual abuse as they fear ridicule and also because much of the abuse on boys is male on male, they fear questions about their sexuality," says Van Niekerk.
"The 'decentralisation' – effectively the disbanding – of our child protection units in the police have created enormous problems for reporting child abuse. Children have to report to untrained police officers, who are under pressure to reduce crime statistics. They find it easy to persuade parents and caretakers not to go ahead with charges, or simply turn children away. This makes a mockery of our crime statistics when it comes to crimes against children," says Van Niekerk. She adds that most offenders are in a position in which they can “gate-keep” the child’s access to help and justice."
According to Childline, the notion of "stranger danger" is misleading. People often think that children are only abused by strangers, but sometimes the person who abuses children is a friend of the parents or a family member. The Teddy Bear Clinic, which treats children who have suffered abuse, states that 21% of children are abused by their biological father.
Incestuous acts can be physical, verbal, or emotional and can include sexual touching and fondling, oral, anal or vaginal penetration, having children pose undressed or perform in a sexual fashion on film or in person. It involves forcing, bribing, threatening or pressuring a child into sexual activity or awareness.
According to Women Against Child Abuse, incest is much more than the transgression of a child’s body and soul, it is the absolute betrayal of their trust in the very people who are supposed to be their protectors and caretakers. While children suffer the sexual abuse, perhaps the most severe form of their abuse is their loyalty towards and love of their abusers.
"Children are frequently taught not to question authority and may believe that adults are always right. Perpetrators of sexual abuse know this and take advantage of these vulnerabilities in children."
(AP and Ilse Pauw, Health24, May 2009)
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Your Comments
damage
Incest does lifelong damage to family members. I cannot believe anyone would want to legitimise that.
Surpised
I don' t see why anyone should be shocked 70 years ago same sex relationships where viewed in the same light, now they are accepted. Its the natural progression in our societies. Not that I agree with it but it is as I said the logical progression.
Saddened
This is just another step in our declining moral values. We are just getting closer to the End of Days as was foretold.
Dubious
I have no moral concens about incest (between consenting adults), only genetic concerns. The article seems to be indicating that decriminalising incest is akin to decriminalising child abuse since much of the article is dedicated to abuse. On what is the claim that most incest is adult-on-child based? Consenting adults aren' t very likely to report incest since they' re, ummm, consenting adults. I' m guessing that we know exactly zero about how much incest goes on (excl same-family child abuse).
Decriminalisation not a logical progression
The decrimination of homosexuality can' t be equated with legalising incest, even if the law differentiates between the actions of consenting adults and abuse of minors. It' s a moot point that homosexuality does not impact negatively on society but can one say the same for incest? Having two fathers might not be damaging but having a father who is also your grandfather can' t possibly add do you any good. 2 men can give a good home to a child but what about the genetics of an incestuous child?
The only....
reason that we are called human is that we are able to think and don' t behave like animals. Incest remains the most disgusting thing we could ever do, especially in our African cultures.
WTF?
Its got nothing to do with being consentual.... incest weakens the DNA, why do hill billies look the way they do, its because of the same DNA replicating itself, a clone of a copy of a copy... its not about them but the deformed kids they will have
Incest
The world started as 1 man and 1 woman. So the logic is that it was ok in the beginning? Adams and Eve' s children slept with each other and that is why we are so crazy, cos we are brothers and sisters. So why the fuss really? I may not agree but I am also no a hypcrite.
Re: Joey
Joey, stop talking out of your ass, no where in the Bible does it state that God ONLY created Adam and Eve. Sounds like you might be the result of some " family love"
Decriminalise
Absolutelly decriminalise incest. The notion is outdated. Abuse of children by parents, guardians or persons in authority will remain criminalised in the rape and stutary rape laws. Non consensual sex also remains crimanalised. Step brothers and sisters who are not remotelly genetically related but only related in law should not be sent to jail.
Shocking
It' s shocking to see that parents don' t look after their children(which is a gift from God). I think we all need to remember that God Lends us His Children. They not ours so we can' t do to them what we want. It' s sickens me to see how some people are!!
@Thokozani & Craai
Thokozani, we are animals. We' re called human because we belong to a particular branch in the animal kingdom, that' s it. Look around you and through history and it' s clear that people are animals. Craai, the Bible does say God created only Adam and Eve and further says that Eve is the mother of all living. And ad hominem arguments really make you look petty and like you can' t come up with an actual argument.
just the thought of it makes me sick
i can' t begin to imagine this - its naar!
@Zane
Actually, inbreeding can weaken, strenghten or do nothing to the resulting DNA. Recessive genes that result in defects are much more likely to be expressed in an inbred child, but so are recessive genes that have good effects. The problem with inbreeding is that today those who end up with defects are likely to live long and have children themselves, ultimately growing the population with defects.
Re: CTheB
Would love to see the passage where you quote your rubbish from? Or is it just what you remember from Sunday School?
@Craai
There are several accounts of incest in the Bible. Look it up.
Also the Bible condems son-mother incest but says nothing about father-daughter incest. There are several instances of father-daughter marriage or sex. The bible is not the place for guidence on incest.
Bob
Ag Bob... Sies tog. There is absolutely no connection between incest and homosexuality. Incest weakens the genetic make-up of humans. Homosexuality does no such thing. I' m with you, Karen.
Craai
I never disputed the fact that there are occurences of incest in the Bible, if you bothered to read my posts properly, you would see that I' m saying the Bible never said that Adam and Eve were the only peope created
@Craai
All I did was open the Bible. Genesis, chapter 3, verse 20: " And Adam called his wife' s name Eve because she was the mother of all living." The Bible specifically states that God created Adam and Eve. Nowhere does the Bible make the claim that God went on to create others. It specifically states that were the two created and thrown out of the Garden of Eden, then bearing children, starting with Cain and Abel. All I did was read the Bible.
RE Bob
Ollie I made not connection between homosexuality and incest. My point was that in times past the way people viewed homosexuality is in a similar light that many people see incest today (remembering I am not for this). You are right incest weakens the DNA but homosexuality just stops procreation and if was the main sexual orientation would wipe out humanity or at least weaken the gene pool as the gene pool would be smaller.
INCEST
Well, If 2 CONSENTING adults want to have sex, without producing babies, then it is THEIR business what they do in their private time. Who the hell do you people think you are to decide who other people may have CONSENTING sex with or not? Who do you think you are?????
What if two brothers or sisters want to have sex, they cant even produce children, its their choce what they want to do in their own privacy, not yours.
As was already said above, laws against rape already exsit dummies.
@Craai
Sorry. Too reactionary.
Re Adam and Eve, I think it is reasonable to assume God didn' t secretly create more Adam and Eve' s because the Bible doesn' t mention it and because the Bible describes in detail the lineage of the offspring.
@BOB
Bob, that is exactly why the majority is not homosexual, but predominantly heterosexual. If there were only straight people, planet earth would have reached its ppolution max long ago.... Homosexuality falls on a nutalrul continuum of sexuality, and has been documented in most mammalian species..
Bob, could you please highlight the problems you have with consensual insect? If no unhealthy kids are born (gene therapy future), no violence, and it is purely concensual, then whats is the problem
@Craai
Craai, please just admit it, following the lietaral logic of the Bible, Adam and Eve are the only ancestors of the entire human race, therefore inces must have been inevitable.. Just admit it
@Chris
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and in this case my opinion is that I don' t think that society was created to function that way. But besides everything AGAIN the only point I was trying to make was that I am sure this very discussion that is being had here would have occurred when homosexuality was being decriminalized and I am sure when another (current) illegal sexual orientation is about to be decriminalized this debate will rage again.
Mythological bad effects
Personally, from the morality and social aspect I think it a poor idea, but actually it is less of a genetic issue than you may think., and was common among the dominant people of civilizations from Egypt to the Celtic tribes. It' s also quite common in lions and primates with male dominant social structures. It does increase the chance of ' recessive' genetic problems, but also also serves to reinforce the father' s or mothers traits and genome. typically it alternates 2 generations in & one out
Simple logic
I think Thokozani said it simple and straight forward we human are supposed to be dominant and rule the earth.Now that requires thinking and if people don not know the difference between abstract thought and wisdom the we have a problem.With all due due respect to everybody' s theories homosexuality and incest are wrong and humans know this from the very depths of their guts.If not what species are you?
@ Bob
Yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but being able to give sound, rational and logical reasons for your opionos, is what counts and that is why I asked you to highlight the problems you have with incest, not merely to give your opinion, but to actually supplement your opion with rationality.
Please stop making statements like (were the whole population homosexual then... or if everybody was insectuous, then....) Those are banal coditions, because they would never happen.
@ Humbly Human
FYI together with the Orangutans, Chimpazees and Gorillas, humans are classified as APES. Its called science.
It might be wrong for you Mr, but never ever IMPOSE your beliefs onto others. Have you done any scientific research on homosexuality and incest. 1000' s if scientific papers have been writtten about these areas in research, of which you have probably read none. Homosexuality is evident in almost ALL mammalian species, You are not Humble, you are arrogant. The Bible is not SCIENCE.
@Chris
AGAIN the only point I was trying to make was that I am sure this very discussion that is being had here would have occurred when homosexuality was being decriminalized and I am sure when another (current) illegal sexual orientation is about to be decriminalized this debate will rage again.
To what my rational opinions are on why I don' t think it is right would open up a completely new debate as it would start a whole creation/evolution debate is there a God isn' t there etc. So RE first par.
@Bob
YEs, I am aware that was the only pint you were trying to make, but along the way you made some other point s too, which I have latched onto...
I totally agree with your last paragraph. Im sorry, creationism doesnt qualify as rationality anyway.
At least you recognice that progress occurs in our world, whthter you are for it or not, it will happen.
All the above is actually irrellevant. The point is NOBODY should FORCE other poeple to subscribe to their beliefs. As long as no-one....
@Bob
...continued is being harmed... And please dont come up with examples such as family members of gay couples that are being harmed because their kids were born with a specific orientation...
@Chris
Since I have not tried to force my opinion or views on anyone in this discussion, lets try not get into whether creationism is rational because if you (and by the comments you have made) hold to a modernist world view there are plenty of inconsistencies in it as well - hence the world progressing into post modernity because people have realized that science does not have all the answers.
Plus I never mentioned anything like your final example - you have no idea of what my views are.
@Humbly human
There' s some humility missing from your post there. Last time I checked I was classified as a homo sapien sapiens and I don' t know from my guts or anywhere else that homosexuality or incest is wrong. What I do know is that these are judgements that religion attempted to force on me.
@Bob
Yes, there are many inconsistencies within sicence, but science is the best tool we have for understanding everything around us, it it testable etc.. Dont confuse " science hasnt all the anwers" with " science doesn' t have the anwers yet" Science too, will evolve, but it will always be based on the material world,,,
You are right, I have no idea about wwhat you views are, and I will admit I made an assuption about your views earlier on when you made your example about the whole world being gay
@Bob
and that we would the die out.. From that eample I am quite confident about your belliefs might most probably be. Your example makes it sound like sexual orienation is some kind of choice.
Agree WTF
I find this quite scary the fact that society is PROGRESSING into ANIMALS. Or rather we are ecoming worse than animals. It will not belong until our streets and homes are plagued with diseases due to infidel like beahviour...wait i 4got, our streets are already plagued.
Re Evreyone
I find it quite Amusing that a few of you make reference to animals and you say incest is acceptable because animals do it. So basically we look at animals for guidance as to what is acceptable or not. Such a Joke the human species. Another thing is that alot of reference is amde to the Bible, I find that amusing because the Bile which originally came from GOD does not exits no longer, all we have now is a man made Book that fools follow. Anything thats in the Bible is questionable. No to Incest
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